Am I expecting too much?

954 Views 34 Replies 13 Participants Last post by Cassidy's Mom, 8 d ago

Raell

Discussion Starter · 16 d ago

Feeling a bit frustrated so sorry in advance if this becomes a rant.
I’ve been training my almost 11 month old since she was eight weeks old. Three times a day, everyday, with her meals.
She knows sit, down, stand - stay implied; place, climb, touch, spin, heel, middle, front, backup, stay, watch (me), leave it, out, no, okay, get it, wait,I may be missing some. She also knows hand signals for some of these. She can do these in any place I take her so they are generalized. Her loose leash walking is excellent except when over stimulated.
She has learnt alot and continues to learn new things, but I feel frustrated when I take her out and she will lock on to something (stranger or dog) and she doesn’t snap out of it. She is a friendly dog and wants to play with everyone. I generally do not let my pups be pet by strangers after 12 weeks old or so, and she doesn’t play or greet other dogs. When stimulated by someone or dog in the environment, although she understands leave it, and will do it for a second, or watch (me) but will break the command almost immediately to go back to what she was doing, whereas in a less stimulating environment she can watch (me) for many minutes at a time or will leave it indefinitely. Same with loose leash walking. Take her where she is over stimulated, and she starts to pull (less than many other dogs I see out there but for me, it’s too much).
Am I expecting too much of her at this age…or am I just a bad trainer 😬

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dogma13

· #2 · 16 d ago

Sounds normal to me. Think of environmental stimulation as 1 thru 5.She does great at 1,2,3,4, but is not quite ready for 5 yet.Patience

Check out @RosiesPaw video.She's struggled to reach that point too,lol.It'll happen.

www.germanshepherds.com

From loose leash to off leash! Pupdate w/ Beach Video!!

We had been practicing variations of loose leash for some time but the HS collar still seemed necessary. Excitement for dogs, cats, crows, etc was getting better with a strong stationary heel and “focus” command but reactivity was common enough that flat collar was a pain on the butt. Coming...

www.germanshepherds.com

www.germanshepherds.com

Reactions: 4

car2ner

· #3 · 16 d ago

Self control congress with maturity and successful practices. Keep up the good work. Find a trainer/ mentor who can watch your timing with corrections and rewards. Sometimes a tweek can help our communication with our dogs.

Reactions: 3

WNGD

· #4 · 15 d ago

Sounds like you've trained an awful lot of commands that are more good/fun than absolutely necessary. Maybe a bit less on those and get 99% on recall, down and heel (non reactive walk). You're doing great by the sound of it.

Reactions: 2

drparker151

· #5 · 15 d ago

Our trainer suggested a heel and walk faster too keep them from fixating on the target, key is to start heel before your dog locks on the target. Praise good heeling, correct focus shift to other person or dog.

Reactions: 2

Raell

Discussion Starter · #6 · 15 d ago

If we’re walking, relaxed heel, not competitive heeling, she is mostly fine. It is when we’re stationary (she is free to go potty for example). I should have been clear in my initial post.

Bknmaizey

· #7 · 15 d ago

What are you using for treats and do you have different levels of treat value so that when you’re dog is fixated on a distraction, you’re able to regain attention by reference to a high value reward?

Reactions: 1

Raell

Discussion Starter · #8 · 15 d ago

She is highly food motivated and all food has the same value. I use her kibble for training. But she'll work for anything. She'll take the reward but revert her gaze back to whatever she was fixated on upon taking the reward.

Jax08

· #9 · 15 d ago

Just keep doing what you're doing. Increase obedience and engagement in public and places of high distraction. It comes with age and consistency. But...give your dog a break from training so much.

IMO, the food should not be the "reward". You should be the reward and the food/toy is an extension of you. Right now, she gets the reward of food and goes instantly back to the distraction. So if the food doesn't do it to bring her engagement back to you, get a ball and play with her. Push her a little so she's playing with YOU even without a toy or food.

Interesting tidbit from training this weekend. We were talking about how dogs, and people, when given a break from something often come back with a better understanding of what the task was. For instance, you are trying to figure something out and just can't. So you "sleep on it" and come back in the morning with a clear head and a solution. When you train dogs - same thing. You can overtrain. I've noticed over the years that when I am teaching something new if I do it a couple of days in a row, stop and move on to something else or just not train for a day, that they will come back and nail whatever it is I was trying to teach. I did not catch the name of the book the trainer told me to read, but this is because they, and us, both have REM sleep where we process information. So maybe give your dog a break on training daily 3x a day and see what the results are. And then let us know!! Because I'm fascinated with this new information.

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Reactions: 5

Raell

Discussion Starter · #10 · 15 d ago

@Jax08 The interrelated effect of sleep and learning in dogs (Canis familiaris); an EEG and behavioural study

LuvShepherds

· #11 · 15 d ago

I would pick the most important ones and work on each daily but only a short time each day. The others are fun but not necessary yet. I like to teach sit, down, stay, heel, leave it and out, place, front/recall. As the dog gets older I will also add a heel from a front position or anyplace, which means the dog must move on its own into a heel position. I like the front command, which a K9 of trainers don’t teach, because it also teaches position. I work in watch me with the other commands. I taught touch later along with back up. I also like to teach house manners. I don’t bother with spin, middle or a few others. Work on proofing the most important ones first. I didn’t see loose leash waking when the dog isn’t heeling. That is used for exploring and also important.

Don’t stress over what your dog hasn’t learned yet or she could pick up on it and it can affect her behaviors and interactions with you.

Look for @David Winners thread on Valor’s early training. He did everything right and has a lot of videos to show you how he did it.

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Reactions: 1

Jorski

· #12 · 15 d ago (Edited)

@Jax08

larry Krohn has spoken about that in a number of his videos. He called it letting it sink in... very interesting stuff!

Reactions: 1

Cassidy's Mom

· #13 · 15 d ago

I've heard it referred to as "latent learning". Here's an interesting article that talks about it: https://pethelpful.com/dogs/EADT-13-Sleep-More-Than-Just-Resting

Reactions: 2

Bknmaizey

· #14 · 15 d ago

I agree with @Jax08 but i do want to respond to the idea that all food has the same value to your dog. I suspect that’s not true especially if you’re using kibble for training which is good and means you have the ability to step up the treat value when in distracting environments.

We do a game that our trainer calls 0 to 60 to 0. Basically, it goes: command, reward, release, 60 seconds of high engagement, high excitement play, then command, reward, stay/watch, release. Repeat

Ultimately, it’s like Jax said - you want the dog to think of you as the most fun option but also to be able to work through arousal, settle on cue and remain focused on you. It’s not enough to call a dog back, reward and then allow the dog to resume the behavior. Instead, you want the act of coming back to you to be because you’re more interesting than the distraction. The treat may be the thing that grabs a dog’s attention but then it’s on your to maintain the attention.

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Reactions: 5

tim_s_adams

· #15 · 14 d ago

saharaell said:
When stimulated by someone or dog in the environment, although she understands leave it, and will do it for a second, or watch (me) but will break the command almost immediately to go back to what she was doing, whereas in a less stimulating environment she can watch (me) for many minutes at a time or will leave it indefinitely.
...
She'll take the reward but revert her gaze back to whatever she was fixated on upon taking the reward.

The simple fix for this is to make your reward into an event! Give her a jackpot of treats...sometimes with a pause in the middle. Then back off to using the jackpot intermittently...that'll get her to stay focused.

Reactions: 1

Pouncer

· #16 · 14 d ago

One of my dogs is extremely dog reactive. Been working on it by leash walking in backyard keeping focus on me. When on walks I am always looking to see if another dog is coming. If/when another dog starts approaching the threshold of freak out time. I do a food scatter. Simply stop walking, scatter some food on the ground. I scatter enough food for my dog to be paying attention to the food while the other dog passes by. Seems to be working well. Although we have had setbacks. Threshold was 30 yards. We have it down to about 20 yards now.
Overall it takes time.

Reactions: 1

Raell

Discussion Starter · #17 · 14 d ago

Pouncer said:
One of my dogs is extremely dog reactive. Been working on it by leash walking in backyard keeping focus on me. When on walks I am always looking to see if another dog is coming. If/when another dog starts approaching the threshold of freak out time. I do a food scatter. Simply stop walking, scatter some food on the ground. I scatter enough food for my dog to be paying attention to the food while the other dog passes by. Seems to be working well. Although we have had setbacks. Threshold was 30 yards. We have it down to about 20 yards now.
Overall it takes time.

I try not to throw food on the floor other than in my training area (garage) because I found early on that pup starts to scavenge outside looking for food and my current pup has a tendency to think everything on the floor is food.

Reactions: 1

car2ner

· #18 · 14 d ago

yes, food on the ground has its pros and cons. Even doing tracking I prefer to give the reward from hand than finding it on the ground. Just too much crap out there

Jax08

· #19 · 14 d ago

Pouncer said:
One of my dogs is extremely dog reactive. Been working on it by leash walking in backyard keeping focus on me. When on walks I am always looking to see if another dog is coming. If/when another dog starts approaching the threshold of freak out time. I do a food scatter. Simply stop walking, scatter some food on the ground. I scatter enough food for my dog to be paying attention to the food while the other dog passes by. Seems to be working well. Although we have had setbacks. Threshold was 30 yards. We have it down to about 20 yards now.
Overall it takes time.

What do you feel you are teaching your dog with this method? To me, that's a distraction. What happens when you don't have food?

Raell

Discussion Starter · #20 · 14 d ago

car2ner said:
yes, food on the ground has its pros and cons. Even doing tracking I prefer to give the reward from hand than finding it on the ground. Just too much crap out there

when pup was 12 or so weeks old she ate something with THC in it. Had a scare. Ended up in emergency… nice 3-4k spent. She wears a muzzle when on grass now.

Reactions: 1

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