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Hello,
I am looking to get a puppy in about a 2 years. Sort of researching breeders around me and housing right now. I grew up with 3 German Shepherds (if you count my grandparents dog that was always over). I trained both of ours and loved working with them. However, I am going to be stuck with renting probably for a while and most people don't like renting out to people with 100 lb dogs. So I am currently looking at Border Collies and Aussies. They're both be supposed to be smart breeds, and trainable like a German Shepherds. I basically want something close in temperate to a German Shepherd. Any recommendations? Border Collies seem to have less health issues.
Thanks!
 

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Well, a GSD is not supposed to be 100 pounds, so you might not have to worry about that after all. If you get a well bred female GSD, you may be able to find one that is in the 50-60 pounds range. Border collies have INSANE exercise needs. They are so, so smart that they really need a job to do and a lot of exercise and mental stimulation. I usually say that any breed can live happily in an apartment, with the exception of a border collie and usually, in my experience, a husky. Have you looked at a Belgian malinois?
 

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Well, a GSD is not supposed to be 100 pounds, so you might not have to worry about that after all. If you get a well bred female GSD, you may be able to find one that is in the 50-60 pounds range. Border collies have INSANE exercise needs. They are so, so smart that they really need a job to do and a lot of exercise and mental stimulation. I usually say that any breed can live happily in an apartment, with the exception of a border collie and usually, in my experience, a husky. Have you looked at a Belgian malinois?
We had a female that was for sure smaller, but she was runt of the litter. The smartest but the runt. The brother (my uncle had) was like 100 lbs. Our male dog was about a 100lbs. My mom's current female is about a 100lbs. They're all pure bred.
 

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For as large of a divide as there is in the German Shepherd breed, the split in border collies is even greater.

I see a lot of BCs every week, and I've fostered several. They are very intelligent but their temperaments and levels of drive and energy run the gamut, depending largely on whether they are from strict working stock, sport lines, show lines, or random mixes. Some are fantastic companions, others are not. I've met some that I'd love to steal, and others you couldn't pay me to own. Go watch a lot of them.

There seems, IME, to be a less extreme split in the Aussie breed, and good breeders put a very high emphasis on versatility. If I were looking for an Aussie, I would make sure the parents have been worked/titled in a venue that demonstrates their desire to work WITH their handler. Some that I've met have a strong, weird, arrogant/stubborn streak that would irritate me. Deliberate jerk behavior, which everyone watching chalks up to "Well, he IS an Aussie!"
 

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Groenendale.
Scotch Collie
Neither of those dogs would set off alarm bells for a landlord.
 

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The Belgian Groenendale can be neurotic. I would never own one. IN general the Belgian Shepherds are pretty intense. You can not go wrong with a well bred Rough or Smooth Collie. All these breeds need a lot of work though. Maybe a showline GSD? They are generally easier in their requirements than the working lines. How about a Corgi (but they bark!).
I personally don't know an alternative to a good GSD as long as I am fit and active, that is.
 

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I've met several Groenendales and not a single one was neurotic. Like any breed, you have to choose your breeder.
 

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I have a Groenendael and while I love her dearly - she is indeed super neurotic. Really smart but flighty and any new things send her into a tizzy (sometimes for weeks at a time). She is also really cautious around my husband even though he has never done anything adverse to her. She came to us like that though and though we got her at 4mo's of age she had a pretty rough time before then.

I really love the breed and you can find some solid dogs - you just need to be careful where you get them from. We knew our girl was going to be a whackadoodle before we got her so we were not upset or disappointed in her behavior.

After years of working with Afghan hounds I can pretty much handle any sort of neurotic behavior a dog can throw at me!

Scotch Collies are fabulous but can also be really sensitive and fearful if gotten from the wrong lines - but I also highly recommend them! Just do your research before hand.

Also if you don't mind the grooming standard poodles are awesome!

Beth
 

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Tori, if you're interested in border collies and Aussies, go check some out!

To your original question though, most GSDs are nowhere near 100lbs. Especially females. One of mine is toward the upper end of the standard at 69lbs, the other is around 52lbs. Though what you may be likely to run into, as a renter, are breed-specific restrictions.
 

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It’s not the line but the particular match from a good breeder. My working line was super super mellow and calm in the house adult- 90lbs thin. He was not tall head was probably the bulk of his weight. He gained weight easily and if he reached a hundred he had 10lbs to loose. My male asl 84 lbs - tallest of the three and my female wgsl 65lbs. If a gsd in apartment the female would be a way to go size wise
- asl tend to be taller. They are all active and need to do something. Corgis are also a breed to look at.
 

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Breeding aside, any working dog is going to be neurotic if they are under exercised and under stimulated.

Personally I would need proof of behavior before I EVER shared a house with a Border Collie. I tried to bring mine to live in the city and it was a disaster! He threw some truly creative tricks at me in answer to my request that he behave like a city dog. To be fair he was a working stock dog and had no experience as a pet. However, years in rescue showed dozens of BC's surrendered because they were uncontrollable.
You also need to understand that dependant on your area renting with any dog could well mean resigning yourself to sub standard housing, higher rents and increased deposits and fees.
Most decently bred female GSD's are going to be only moderately larger then either an Aussie or a BC, if at all. My male BC was bigger then my current GSD.

Honestly, if you must have a dog and know you will be renting I would go through a rescue and adopt an adult. Very few landlords and fewer neighbors are tolerant of puppy nonsense, but lots of landlords are softies for well mannered rescues.
 

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I've had pure bred German Shepherds... 1 was smaller but she was also bred to be an agility dog. She was also the runt of the litter. Her siblings were much bigger. Her brother was easily over 100 lbs. My male German Shepherd was easily over 100 lbs too. Then my mom's current female German Shepherd is about 100 lbs right now. So they do reach 100 lbs easily in my experience. My friends German Shepherds were even bigger. So in my experience, they've been usually bigger. You don't want them bigger though because of hip issues.
 

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yeah , I would have said a 60 pound mellow female GSD \

Grpemdal or Tervuren -- my experience through owners wanting to join a training club and thrugh some of the shows where I tag along to as a handler in case my firend , exhibitor, has two entrieds thatneed to be in the ring
at the same time is , nervy dogs , that startle -- neurotic .

I have had experience with some excellent Airedale terriers that came from a local breeder who had some dogs go into guide work, detection and therapy .
I helped train a few -- .
Very smart . good cognitive skills learning new and retaining training - a thinking dog.
Good companion . Stabel and confident and could do protection.

were adaptable . Treat them like a GSD . Fair and firm .

grooming was hand stripping 2 or 3 times a year --
 

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When I go to downsize, and might even get one before then, it is going to be an Australian Cattle Dog.
 
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I have had experience with some excellent Airedale terriers that came from a local breeder who had some dogs go into guide work, detection and therapy .
I helped train a few -- .
Very smart . good cognitive skills learning new and retaining training - a thinking dog.
Good companion . Stabel and confident and could do protection.

were adaptable . Treat them like a GSD . Fair and firm .

grooming was hand stripping 2 or 3 times a year --
I had an Airedale about 30 years ago. She was everything you just wrote. Great dog.
 

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Another fun, smaller breed that no one has mentioned yet is the Shetland Sheepdog. They have great energy, and personality. They are also a working breed and definitely need daily mental and physical exercise ... though some of their working drive may have been bred out by breeding for show rather than work. Not sure if there is a split in the Sheltie breed as there is in many other working breeds, as it's been many years since I've had one, but they are great little dogs ... and although I'm not really a little dog person I wouldn't mind owning another Sheltie someday.
 

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Well, a GSD is not supposed to be 100 pounds, so you might not have to worry about that after all. If you get a well bred female GSD, you may be able to find one that is in the 50-60 pounds range. Border collies have INSANE exercise needs. They are so, so smart that they really need a job to do and a lot of exercise and mental stimulation. I usually say that any breed can live happily in an apartment, with the exception of a border collie and usually, in my experience, a husky. Have you looked at a Belgian malinois?
So she shouldn't get a border collie cause they're too high maintenance, instead she should get a Malinois which is just like a border collie but is far more dominant, aggressive, and civil?

Did I read that right? :|

ETA: OP - civil means threshold for biting people, including their handler. It's not a positive thing as you might assume, unless that's what you want and are prepared to handle of course.
 

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I imagine herding dogs in general would fare poorly in an apartment unless the owner is willing to get them outdoors a LOT. You could rescue a very deserving and apartment friendly Greyhound from a racetrack :wink2:

+10 Karma Points even.
 

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Shelties are great dogs! of course I may be a little biased since I have 4 of them. :grin2: They come in a variety of colors and size, they are supposed to be 13-16 inches tall but it is common to have oversized pups in the litters. My big boy is 18 inches tall and 40 pounds (not overweight)
 
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