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Discussion Starter #1
So I went to the AKC site about registration and if I get limited registration on my pup, she won't be able to do conformation. I'm not completely sure if I want to do conformation, but what if I change my mind and decide that I do want to do conformation? I will probably spay her, so should I really get full registration? My breeder says I will need to have my mind made up after the litter is here, but I've been thinking about this for a while and feel like I can not only make a decision, but a good decision asking you guys for help. :)
 

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Why not fully register the dog to begin with?
This way...if you decided later, that you want to try conformation..you will have the option.
If you choose to spay her later...it doesn't change anything.
Full registration only gives a dog the "ability" to show in conformation or be bred...it doesn't mean it "must" be.
Best wishes to you,
Robin
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you.

See, that was the problem. I was thinking if I going to full reg her, it would be better if she were bred and that full reg is for breeding. Now I feel confortable with full reg and spaying her.
 

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Robin - limited registration can be changed to full later right? But if you are going to show in conformation, wouldn't you want to start the dog as a puppy?
 

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I'm not sure if spayed females are allowed to compete in conformation. You could just hold off spaying until after she completes her championship. :)
 

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Yes...limited can be changed to full (by the breeder) later.
Spayed females cannot compete in Conformation Shows as far as I know...
Conformation Shows are considered "breed" shows....so no "altered" dogs are supposed to compete.
Jax...I think that the OP is getting a puppy.....and yes, it's best to start with a puppy...but dogs that are older can also be taught, and do extremely well!
Robin
 

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Thanks Robin! My question was actually for me for reference in the far future. :) As far as I know spayed/neutered can not be shown in conformation too. But, it sounds like if you want to show then it's best to get full registration from that start.

So, if you have a buyer that wants a puppy for show but you want to make sure the dog isn't bred before the OFA's are done, how do you write that up in the contract?
 

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You know Jax.....we don't have a long, complicated contract.
I guess, in our situation...we would have to rely on the integrity of the buyer.
A breeder can stipulate anything they want or request in a contract...but ultimately it is up to the honesty of the buyer to uphold it.
I rarely do "limited registration"...we usually only do such, if a puppy has a physical reason.....ie..undesended testicle, incorrect detention..etc..etc..
We also offer guidance to our buyers, so that we can assist them in making the proper choices for their puppies/dogs.
Robin
*I know that this info will probably fall hard on some members of the forum*.
 

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If you spay her she still can't show in conformation, so the type of registration doesn't matter.

If you think you want to show her in conformation then you need to discuss this with the breeder. Even if she is initially sold on limited, if you decide to do conformation later the breeder can upgrade that to full so you can show her. But again you need to discuss with the breeder. Some breeders who make a practice to sell on limited will make arrangements for a pup to go out on full for someone who wants to do conformation showing. They might handle this with a different sort of contract, though many will do it by being listed as a co-owner on the registration as that is the safer bet in terms of making sure the dog is not bred since AKC won't register the litter unless both co-owners fill out paperwork. So this way allows for being able to show the dog while still keeping with the spirit of selling pups on limited registration. Either way it is something you have to discuss and work out with your breeder.
 

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I am thinking the decision has to be made before purchase. It sounds as if the breeder would sell the pup with full reg, but at a higher price. Will sell her the pup on limited reg, at a lower price. That is why the decision needs to be made before the breeder is ready to register the litter. But I am just guessing.

If it were me, I would buy with full reg. Then it wont matter what you do with her. You would want to wait on spaying her until she is done growing anyway, and by then she could have confirmation points.
 

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Not sure that the price is alway different with full vs limited registration... think that also depends on the breeder.

Those breeders that want to be responsible and keep track of ALL their dogs, the ones they own and ones they have bred, seem to want to be more involved long term with all their dogs. So if a limited registry is given with the puppy initially, if they agree with the new owner later that the dog may be breed worthy, or want to allow the person to show the pup in the breed ring, they then can change the paperwork ( or NOT ) depending on the exact situation.

When I buy my pups, I don't think of them as potential money makers and puppy makers down the road... so paying more for a dog with a full registration rather than a limited one isn't part of my decision making. I want the best puppy for my needs FROM THE BEST BREEDER who has breeding goals I agree with.
 

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If you think you may want to show in conformation, you would be best to get full registration from the start. While breeders can change limited, it isn't something I would count on. If you spay her it won't matter. And you can get full UKC registration on a limited AKC registration dog, so it really doesn't matter if you are only interested in UKC shows.

Breeders all handle full registration, limited and spay/neuter contracts differently. I personally don't see a lot of use for limited registration. If someone is going to be dishonest with you about breeding a dog they get from you, they probably are not going to care if the offspring can be AKC registered or not either. They can just register with an alternative registry anyway. I have known limited registration to cause issues for people who wanted to show but couldn't get the limited lifted (for personal issues that developed with the breeder, nothing to do with the quality of the dogs).
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I am thinking the decision has to be made before purchase. It sounds as if the breeder would sell the pup with full reg, but at a higher price. Will sell her the pup on limited reg, at a lower price. That is why the decision needs to be made before the breeder is ready to register the litter. But I am just guessing.

If it were me, I would buy with full reg. Then it wont matter what you do with her. You would want to wait on spaying her until she is done growing anyway, and by then she could have confirmation points.
My friend, you are correct. The breeder does charge a bit more for full registration.

Thank you, Chris Wild and everyone, for chiming in. I've already talked to the breeder about it. I brought up starting out with limited and upgrading, but there's some problems to it.

I think I'm going to full register her and think about whether or not I'm going to spay her.
 

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Once the dog leaves with their new owners, they are the new owner's dog. I can be interested in them. I can accept them back if I want to. I really cannot force them to be spayed or neutered or not be spayed or neutered. If I could force anything, I would force training. But the dog literally steps out of my life and into life with its new owner.

If you want to show the dog, yes you should discuss this with the breeder first. Not every breeder is the same, but there are some things to think about.

A show breeder gets known for dogs they have bred that do well.

A litter may MAY have one flier (show prospect). Two fliers in a litter would be an AWESOME litter.

The breeder may keep that puppy or may sell that puppy, but they are going to want to sell that puppy not to someone who thinks maybe they will show in conformation, they are going to want to sell that puppy to someone who WILL show in conformation. Not showing the dog if it IS show quality would hurt the breeder's business. Kind of like a painter giving their best painting to someone who covers it up and leaves it in the basement.

If the breeder wants their kennel name in the puppies registered name, it would be a slight not to do so.


Lastly, some individual breeders WANT to offer limited until you jump through a variety of hoops, a method of ensuring you do not just breed their puppy, but get some accomplishments. It is an interesting idea, BUT, I do not think it works well really. If the people want puppies and do not want to do the work, they will breed to the police dog down the street and call you frantically to change their registration so that these puppies can at least go to good homes. The breeder will or won't but either way they are making puppies. And if you do not get full registration from the get go, and you go back a year later only to find your breeder has died or has been suspended or simply forgets they agreed to do so, well it will be yucky then.
 

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Kind of on selzer's point, the difference between a full registration and limited could be the difference in show or pet puppies. With most breeders (I know of Aussies, anyway) they will sell every pet puppy on a limited registration and every show on a full, resulting in different prices and different obligations. If you don't know whether or not you'll be showing, stick to a pet quality dog with limited registration so that you don't ruin the breeders lines and you can get another puppy in the future when you KNOW you want to show and have the time/money. In the meantime, you can do performance events and still have a lot of fun with the dog. (AND spay it if you want)
 

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Good points, but some breeders are probably fine with puppy buyers wanting to try out conformation for fun. I think this is all getting a bit too serious.
 

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^ I'm sure they are, but the way you approach the breeder about it makes all the difference, because if you say you want to show and buy a show prospect puppy, you really are obligated to show. I'm sure you could get a pet quality and work out some contract differently for full registration to show, although you may as well stick to limited and show in UKC in most cases (still tons of fun I hear) because generally pet quality pups are so for faults that would prevent showing in AKC.
 

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Personally, I want to know if our buyer actually intends on showing......
Yes...the price may be a little different ($300-$500)normally. (for us).
I WANT the *best* conformation puppies in the possible show homes....after all, it's more rewarding for an owner to place & do well...than to just be "able" to show.
our simple theory to this is: "We would rather compete & take the class....than to compete and take up the class".
But in the end....we do not force our buyers to compete, it is completely up to them.... but I would rather "as a breeder", give them the best opportunity to do well.
Robin
 

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I agree, we do not force them. But if you convince a breeder that you want to show the pup, and then never follow through, it is a bad decision by the breeder to give the show quality pup to that person. Differences between show quality and pet, are subtle and may not be discernable to a novice. In fact, a novice might like the pet dog better. Hard to say.

If you are serious about the breed as a breeder, you want your best dogs to go to people who will DO something with them. Or you will just keep the very best for yourself. It lands into regret when you let one go that you would have done something with, only to watch and wait for nothing.
 

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Generally, not all things are equal. If you get four breeders together and ask them which are the pick puppies from any given litter, they will often pick different puppies. Beyond not having any DQs, "show prospect" is a pretty subjective term. Sometimes there is a standout puppy, sometimes not but breeders should be looking for a depth of quality in their litters, not just one or two show hopefuls. From a breeding standpoint, it's actually a bit better to have a good depth of quality but no real standouts than have a single standout with a bunch of mediocre littermates. Standouts generally aren't going to be sold to a first timer who isn't sure if they want to show or not. However, many breeders would be happy to place a quality dog in such a home.
 
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