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After posting to another thread, I really began thinking about AKC registrations and the benefits and drawbacks of Full and Limited Registrations. What are your views on each? Do you think both could somehow backfire on the breed?

The AKC registration system is too 'easy', as puppy millers can slap a registration on sick dogs under horrible conditions. If you were able to come up with a registration system, what kind of requirements would you have?


Full Registration drawbacks:
Leaves the door open to all buyers, responsible or not for a free pass to have AKC on any litter.

Limited Registration drawbacks:
Scenario- Puppies with health certifications in pedigree are sold with a limited Registration for $950. Responsible owners will abide, irresponsible owners will breed regardless. But this dog is so amazing, so the buyer breeds it but the puppies are not be registerable and thus sold for a smaller price. The person with $350 in their savings buys the unregistered puppy for $300 and can't provide for it. If the puppy had papers it would have sold for $900 to a family who had been saving for a dog giving it a better life.

**I know this is not how all situations are, just looking at all possibilities!! What do you all think???

Ok we'll call it "GoldPapers"

To start, If I had my own registration system, I would work with the OFA and have all owners get various health certifications before they register the adult. Breeds with certain known defects would also be required to have health certifications before being registered. This would greatly reduce the registraion of puppy-mill dogs with GoldPapers.
 

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In many cases the AKC registration is not easy. If you have a sire and/or dam that is from another country there is extra paper work, more time, more money. If the dog itself is registered in another country, again, more time and paperwork. It can get rather complicated.

IMO the AKC is just a registry. It is the responsibility of breed clubs to establish a breeder code of ethics and determine standards for breeding. I see a lot of comparing the SV with the AKC but that's apples and oranges. The SV is the parent club for German shepherd dogs in Germany. The AKC is a registry for ALL breeds in the US. SV is more like the GSDCA here. I'm not defending or condoning the AKC (or GSDCA, yuck), I just think that asking the AKC to regulate breeding is the wrong way to go about it and puts us on a slippery slope.

As far as registration status, I get all my dogs on Full because I show them starting three months. Some breeders only offer Limited and require titles and hip/elbow certification before offering full. My dogs are basically done showing by the time they are old enough to title and have their hips and elbows checked. I have no intention of breeding dogs or re-selling my dogs to be bred, but part of the reason I get dogs is to show them. It rules out some breeder possibilities but I haven't really had a problem finding a show line and working line puppy with Full registration. It is totally up to the breeder what they offer and why. No hard feelings or disrespect from me.

Honestly the only reason I register AKC at all is because it is the official registry of this country, so it is required for me to participate in other shows and trials in the US or worldwide.
 

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When I purchased my puppy I did so with the intent on showing. The breeder knew that I actively show horses, therefore had no doubt that I would show my puppy. Although the litter were all sold on a limited registration, she sold me my puppy with a full registration.

Due to an injury to his paw (and he limps) I can not show. The breeder offered me my money back or a new puppy. Because (1) I purchased my puppy with full knowlege of his injury, (2)it would have been too difficult to raise two pups and (3) I had no intention of returning Hondo, I declined the offer. However, I have great respect for the breeder who made the offer. I would not hesitate to buy another puppy from her. ....in fact, she has a new litter born last week....
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Honestly the only reason I register AKC at all is because it is the official registry of this country, so it is required for me to participate in other shows and trials in the US or worldwide.
I agree. I would also love to get into showing bit I'd be a total noob at it!

I just have a problem with the fact that there are so many awesome breeders out there, and then there are all puppymills, both of which are able to get a dog papered by the AKC. It's upsetting that they can even be held to the same standard when getting paperes for litters. It would be comforting to know that "AKC Registered" dogs are at least generally of better health. But poor breeders use the AKC as a selling point and so many people think that papers make a better dog. I wish there was a better way to regulate to keep the AKC OUT of miller's reach.
 

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I agree. I would also love to get into showing bit I'd be a total noob at it!

I just have a problem with the fact that there are so many awesome breeders out there, and then there are all puppymills, both of which are able to get a dog papered by the AKC. It's upsetting that they can even be held to the same standard when getting paperes for litters. It would be comforting to know that "AKC Registered" dogs are at least generally of better health. But poor breeders use the AKC as a selling point and so many people think that papers make a better dog. I wish there was a better way to regulate to keep the AKC OUT of miller's reach.
I think the key is education. IMO they are not held to the same standard, at least not for an educated person. AKC registration means nothing to me other than the ability to get the correct papers so I can show my dogs and get scorebooks. To me it says absolutely nothing about the quality of the dog or the breeder.

Those that believe it somehow indicates quality of the dog or breeder need to be educated about what it really is and how to choose a good dog and breeder.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
No, to the educated buyer the papers really don't mean much. I agree with that. I just get so upset when I see advertisments with puppies obviously of poor quality that are advertised as with AKC papers as a selling point. And uneducated people are attracted to these puppies because of that. And when someone on the stree comes to pet my dogs, and one of the first questions is "does he have papers?" like it matters. It just helps poor breeders sell more dogs. The AKC has some great clubs and friendly, knowledgable people that have beautiful dogs. I wish those knowledgable, dedicated people and their beautiful show, agility, obedience dogs were not even associated with bad breedrers spitting out puppies with "AKC Papers!"
 

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It's not just AKC. CKC will register almost any dog. I once had a dog whose father's ancestors were unknown and are still unknown today. Heck, there's a chance the father may not have even been pureblooded!

I believe it when people say CKC is a joke and when you look at ads, that's the registry, the main registry, that Bad BYBs used. I call them bad BYBs because they are worse than the regular BYBs who are trying but just don't know enough or don't have the money to be breeding. Bad BYBs just get two supposedly purebred dogs, breed them, and sell them for profit. No guarantees, health testing, or knowledge about the breed. They just want to make money off the dogs.

The AKC limited registeration is to discourage people from breeding dogs not fitting the breed's breeding standard. It's not working, like you guys stated.

If I had a registry, both parents would have to be confirmed to be purebred and health tested to be registered and for the pups to be registered. If someone buys a pup, then they would have to do the same thing or the owner of the other parent would have to do the same thing. Without that, limited registeration or maybe none at all.
 

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The problem with requiring health tests for registration is that it disqualifies dogs under the age of two from showing or participating in other trials and competitions. Before Nikon turned two he had his BH, 3 VP ratings, 1 SG rating, and 195 UKC points. None of these would have been possible without the proper registration papers.

Also, hips and elbows alone do not a proper breeding dog or working dog make. I would take a mildly dysplastic dog with a fantastic temperament over the many spooks I've been up against in the show ring any day even if they had OFA excellent hips. Everyone has their own criteria for what is important when making decisions about breeding, and often those criteria change just based on the individual dog or possible breeding pair. With some combination you need to be more careful about hips, others you might be looking to improve or carry on some aspect of temperament and can all but guarantee passable hips.

I do not want the AKC or any registry determining what is necessary for me and my breed.

I guess I am more focused on the people doing it right. I don't see the purpose of making it even more complicated for good breeders to breed and work their dogs. I really don't have time or energy to care about BYBs and puppymills. I guess if people want to spend a thousand dollars on a spookey dog with hereditary health problems that's their choice. These places only exist because there is a demand for them. I say, work on cutting out the demand rather than the supply.
 

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I think AKC is a rather pointless registry. It really isn't even a good method for proving two dogs are the parents to a litter of pups unless you do DNA testing on every single litter and puppy (given that multiple sires can sire a litter) and not just DNA the occasional litter if they breed X amount of litters. People assume that because their dog is AKC registered is means it's "purebred," but it really isn't a guarantee.

We have AKC registration on a couple of our dogs but I just don't see the point. They are filed away with all their vet paperwork but never see the light of day.

The only reason I could see wanting AKC registration is if you plan to show your dog.
 

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It's not just AKC. CKC will register almost any dog. I once had a dog whose father's ancestors were unknown and are still unknown today. Heck, there's a chance the father may not have even been pureblooded!

I believe it when people say CKC is a joke and when you look at ads, that's the registry, the main registry, that Bad BYBs used.
Do you mean the Continental Kennel Club or Canadian Kennel Club?
 

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The problem with requiring health tests for registration is that it disqualifies dogs under the age of two from showing or participating in other trials and competitions. Before Nikon turned two he had his BH, 3 VP ratings, 1 SG rating, and 195 UKC points. None of these would have been possible without the proper registration papers.
I don't know how AKC limited registration would have prevented you from getting his BH, VP ratings, or his SG. As far as I know, nothing prevents a dog with AKC Limited registration from entering in any working events. I thought the only thing not possible was entering in the AKC show ring? Does AKC limited reg. affect UKC showing?

I sell almost all of my puppies on LR that is reversible if the dog earns a performance title or certification and has hip xrays (from an "FCI recognized organization--so OFA or an "a" stamp). But if someone said they really wanted full reg to show in conformation, I'd make an exception on the LR policy (assuming everything else with the buyer checked out as well)--so it's always worth asking.
 

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In the US, the AKC is the best thing we have when it comes to registries. It has its limitations. It will register any dog out of any sire and dam of the same breed that are both registered. You can purchase a pedigree that shows the lineage. They do participate in a number of dog related things. You can get titles from them. They watch the legislature for upcoming dog legislation.

But their scope is too wide for them to put limitations on what dog can and cannot be bred. There are over a hundred breeds out there, and all of them have their own health problems. Health requirements alone could become terribly costly with no value added. If there is a problem that is common in some other breeds, and they make that a requirement for our breed, the test will cost GSD owners a ton of money for something they did not need.

Limited registration may make it a little safer for dogs not to become breeding animals at someone's farm, but only if they are worried about AKC registraion.
 
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