AGGRESSION WITH OTHER DOGS!

1793 Views 16 Replies 10 Participants Last post by LouCastle, Mar 25, 2008

mastercabman

Discussion Starter · Mar 21, 2008

I have 2 GSD-one male and one female- The male is fine on our walks but the female get so aggressive towards other dogs. Ive tryed training and the shock collar and still no results, it keeps getting worse. Tonight she almost bit another dog, that really scared me. Does anyone have any suggestions? Im getting really worried and frustrated.

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

kelso

· #2 · Mar 22, 2008

how is she off leash with other dogs? is it just when on leash? what "training" have you tried other than the shock collar? any positive training? when did this start and how old is she?

more details would help, try to think of any thing possible to help people give you advice

also, try searching around here, there has it seems been tons of posts on leash reactivity and other aggression issues posted lately

do you have a trainer available to speak with?

mastercabman

Discussion Starter · #3 · Mar 22, 2008

off leash,she's somewhat ok.if i go to the park,she barks and barks and barks...then when we are inside the park,she gets a little shy,and barks a little,but lattely she has got a little too close and other dogs are snapping back at her,then it gets a little nasty to the point that she's trying to bite.
she is 14 months old,70lbs and she is very good with people.very good!
i've done trainning with her,and she is pretty good with basic commands.
she loves to play,and she gets along with oliver(big brother)
but it is getting worse,when i take her for a walk,when there's another dog she goes nuts! barks and barks and pulling me hard!
the barks collar works only when it's in place.
i'm going to search for a one on one trainer and hope that i can get some help.

StGeorgeK9

· #4 · Mar 22, 2008

When you say shock collar what exactly was your method? You can use an e-collar for aggression, but it takes a long time and the dog should barely feel the stim, otherwise you will make the aggression worse............

If you have the level up to high and when she begins to react and push the button you actually reinforce her fear aggression. It feels like she has been bit and she says to herself "yep, those dogs came close and I got bit" If you have an e-collar trainer that can help you that would be best, if not, I suggest leaving the e-collar out of your training tools...and begin working her at the edge of a group with a gentler collar, where she is just aware of the dogs but not yet stressed by them...

I suggest you review this website http://www.flyingdogpress.com/ to find some good ideas, also if you really are interested in using an e-collar visit http://www.loucastle.com for methods that will work. If you give sharp corrections when the dog is agitated she will increase her aggression, try and distract her to get praise......body block when you see her interest is up, turn her the other way and walk from the dog, etc... try to find calming methods, not methods that will increase her agitation.

Good luck!

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zyppi

· #5 · Mar 22, 2008

This might help.
http://www.flyingdogpress.com/onldagg.html

mastercabman

Discussion Starter · #6 · Mar 22, 2008

the collar that i have is a bark control collar.
it is automatic,when she barks,the collar starts to shock at lowest level.if she does not feel the shock and keeps on barking,the collar steps up until she stops barking.at that point the level is set.then if she starts to bark again,the collar resume but 2 level lower(to give her a warning)if she only barks once or twice than that mean she knows that if she keeps barking she is going to get a strong hit.
this collar is fully automated.
the problem i have with it is that it keeps on moving around her neck,the prongs have to be on her troat to work properly.
thank all of you who repplied,i'm going to do some research and try again with her.

Brightelf

· #7 · Mar 22, 2008

3

Well, you'll hate this advice, but, it is working for me:

Walk her alone, NOT with Oliver. You need both hands available to work with her, and no other dog distracting you.

Next, buy a clicker, a halti, (gasp.. really!) some unbelievably delicious, small, moist treats (cooked chicken is good). Order Feisty Fido by Patricia McConnell. This book will help you until you have a great trainer onboard-- and even afterwards for neccesary homework to solve this problem.

Begin working on teaching focus at home using the clicker and treats. Get that Watch command good and solid!

When I walk Grimm, I have my lead and clicker in one hand, treats in the other, and go to The Zone of Many FiFis.... a very doggy area in my city. When Grimm first sees another dog, I use the halti to g-e-n-t-l-y turn his head in my direction after I say Watch. Click, treat. Repeat. Then, things get interesting!

I ask for a heel! A sit.. a down! A dancing heelwork figure 8-- who knows what I'll ask for! Grimm gets a click and treat EACH time he looks at me and or does what I have just commanded. And.. those commands come FAST! He had better watch Mama.. because we will heel left, right, around in a circle right into his space going left.. etc.

Grimm thinks: "Whoa.. no more harsh, stressful prong collar corrections when I see another dog. Seeing a dog = busy, busy, busy.. better watch Mama, commands will be happening fast! We'll be DANCING! Plus, I get major boku yummy TREATS.. and tons and tons of praaaaise! Man.. Other dogs don't make me tense up and bark so much anymore!"

The halti removes any tension YOU may have been sending to your dog using a harsher collar when he reacts to another dog.

The clicker takes you, and your tense emotions, totally out of the picture, and calmly says 'That's right' each time she does something.. calm, positive, cut-and-dry-- easy.. PLUS-- it tells her she is working, and in working mode.. not freak-out mode.

The treats and praise create a positive association with something she normally finds stressful.

The zippy fast heeling, sits, downs, comes, etc etc all changes her mindset about what her rutine will be when she sees a dog. Freak out? No! Work time!

For snacks and praise!

A better option.

Please order Feisty Fido.. it has helpsed me considerably.I hope you find a great trainer and behaviorist for her, too!

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StGeorgeK9

· #8 · Mar 22, 2008

Patti, I think you are right on! You have been dealing with this with Grim for a while so you know what is working and what agitated even more. Very solid advice.

StGeorgeK9

· #9 · Mar 22, 2008

Originally Posted By: oliver annie
the problem i have with it is that it keeps on moving around her neck,the prongs have to be on her troat to work properly.

A bark collar or any e-collar needs to be very snug up high just behind the ears and under the jaw....it should be tight enough that you can not move it. I know this seems too tight but high up on the neck like that does not interfere with anything and really is not uncomfortable for the dogs......it just feels like it when you put it on so snug. I still advise you to put that particular tool away with this issue.

Patti gave you some very solid advice, she has been having a lot of issues with her Grimm and has made a lot of progress with him.

I use an e-collar in training, but not when she is in a stressful situation, I also will use either a greyhound collar or a gentle leader/halti to help turn attention back to me.

Brightelf

· #10 · Mar 22, 2008

3

Thanks, Betsy.

This method takes a loooonnnnnggg time. But his stress and reactivity is brought down by much more than 50%, and I have only been trying this for about 3 weeks so far. It gets easier and easier-- with time and working your dog each and every time there is another dog. You need to communicate to your dog: "Awesome, another dog! That means work-work-work, for chest-scritches, and fun, fun, fun! We're heeling, we're dancing, better keep up! Time for treats! Time for praise! Chest scritches!"

Eventually, she will see another dog, and whip her head around to you.. why would she wanna miss the beginning of your dance rutine together, seeing as there are so many bonus goodies involved?

I always end every session with mondo mego chest-scritches and saying 'Kiss-kiss".. because by that time, he is leaning into me and licking my chin as i bend to scritch his chest.

It's taken the stressful feeling of seeing other dogs and helped him refocus on ME to a degree. Not toally yet.. he is just 15 months, distractable, and we have only been at this a few weeks, but he is MUCH more manageable.. and beginning to anticipate the obedience games to follow when he sees another dog.

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BowWowMeow

· #11 · Mar 22, 2008

I would order "Click to Calm." It has very comprehensive advice. I don't think a bark collar is appropriate for what you're dealing with here. The barking is just a symptom, not the real problem. I agree with Patti in terms of approach; the "Click to Calm" book lays everything out, step by step.

mastercabman

Discussion Starter · #12 · Mar 22, 2008

thanks for the replies.
annie does pretty good with commands,but when she sees another dog,forget it,not even a "big mac" stops her.
i'm going to start on walking annie by herself,maybe i can get better control.i will let you guys know how she does.
i really need to get this under control before it's too late.
oliver is so easy,i never had to deal with some like this.
thank you again.

LouCastle

· #13 · Mar 22, 2008

This protocol also works to stop dog-to-dog aggression. Http://loucastle.com/critter.htm

TrackingPuppy

· #14 · Mar 25, 2008

Set up the situation. Using a flat collar tie her to a tree/post while you stand at her side. At a distance have someone with a dog walk perpendicular to where you are both standing.

The minute she reacts have that person stop and you walk away from your dog. When she calms down return to her side, treat and praise.

Repeat with the assistant getting closer each time. Do not spend all day doing this 15-30 minutes. When she seems to get the idea take her away and play with her, do something fun.

Repeat this exercise until she understands she does not need to protect you.

This helped us with Sena who was leash aggressive. Sena did not have issues when running free with other dogs.

Good Luck

Timber1

· #15 · Mar 25, 2008

My hunch is walking the dog alone, and using a pronged collar, up tight, and a few firm jerks would resolve the problem.

However, so dogs although they appear to be very aggressive just want tio play. My neighbor and I have large yards bordering a river and numerous dogs come over. They play rough, and some folks that watch become alarmed. However, the dogs always know when to let go and settle.

Obviously, you should be able to control your dog on leash and I suggest a pronged collar. It worked well for my dog Timber.

towtrip

· #16 · Mar 25, 2008

I would recommend the more positive methods, such as recommended by Ruth and Patti. IMHO -- aggression begets aggression. If you're going to shock a dog with a shock collar or dig the prongs of a pinch collar into its neck, you're associating pain with the stimulus, which escalates the aggression. This is what the OP has already experienced -- the dog is getting worse on a shock collar, not better.

By following Click to Calm or Feisty Fido, you can begin to associate positive experiences with the presence of the dog and get the adrenaline/aggression response reduced. Get the "watch" down pat, so that you can redirect her attention whenever she alerts to the presence of another dog. (With my dog, I trained the command "ignore it," which lets her look in the direction of the other dog/squirrel/cat/rabbit, but her feet need to keep moving in the same direction as mine, which keep a steady forward pace and she can't react.)

LouCastle

· #17 · Mar 25, 2008

Originally Posted By: Susan Faggression begets aggression. If you're going to shock a dog with a shock collar or dig the prongs of a pinch collar into its neck, you're associating pain with the stimulus, which escalates the aggression. This is what the OP has already experienced -- the dog is getting worse on a shock collar, not better.

It appears that you're not familiar with how I use an Ecollar for dog-to-dog aggression. Simply pressing the button when the dog shows aggression would probably make the problem worse. But that's not what I do.

Here's how it IS done. Http://loucastle.com/critter.htm

Originally Posted By: Susan FBy following Click to Calm or Feisty Fido, you can begin to associate positive experiences with the presence of the dog and get the adrenaline/aggression response reduced.

I've never seen this happen in any kind of time frame that I'd call "reasonable." I've read some so-called "kinder, gentler trainers" talk about it taking a year!

My protocol, as used by a complete novice with the tool, made a dramatic change in just two training sessions, a day apart. It's detailed here. http://loucastle.com/simon.htm

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