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Anubis Star.. :thumbup:

I'd like to add we see this in the training sub forum more frequently as well, especially with aggression issues.
 

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This has concerned me also. I've seen these gentle warnings before but I seems some still persist in giving medical advise.

Question. If we see a post of this nature and click on the "report" button, will the moderator delete the post and insert a warning sentence about giving medical advise?

As far as I can see, some are not stopping, and those are probably the dangerous ones.... Thank You.
 

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So, it's a grey area. It's not illegal to give medical advice if you are not a Dr. It IS illegal to prescribe medication, make a diagnosis if you are not a Dr.

However, telling someone to give an over the counter anti diahrrea medicine is not illegal. At all. Unless said person says, "your dog has blankly blank disease and I am going to fax you an RX for blanky blank medicine". However, and here come grey,

If you are a Dr., and have set up an online website, take an email, discuss the dogs problem and then RX an item. That is actually legal. To have a legal client/patient/dr relationship, ceryain things must be met. And that would actually meet them, if the Dr is available to follow the case after RX the meds.

Any person can legally say, " when my pup had loose stool, I gave them pepto, fixed them right up" and that is not illegal.

Now, more grey area, as a veterinary technician, I am held to different standards, because my education is different. Same as EMT and paramedics. We CANNOT go outside the scope of our trAining legally. So, how does this affect this argument.... A person is choking, the Heimlich does not work, person passes out. A total civilian would generally not be held liable if he got a knife and did s trach. A trained EMT or Medic would be fired and prosecuted for going above their scope of knowledge. The total civi would be covered under the "Good Samaritan" law. (Very extreme example, for examples sake)

Now that law is not a blanket law. But it protects those trying to help from being sued for hurting a patient while trying to help. Breaking ribs is common during CPR. This protects citizens from being blamed for trying to help. Those broken ribs can puncture a lung and kill a patient.

The more training you have, the more responsible you are for what you do. Someone showing off their CPR cert card, needs to do CPR correctly, or they can be held liable.

But on an Internet forum. Any schmuck can give medical advice, as long as they are not pretending to be a Dr, making a diagnosis and prescribing a medicine.
 

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I wasn't necessarily thinking about the legalities of it, rather the inappropriateness of it.

I have seen conversations with the least bit of what might have brought about a political discussion get sniffed in a hurry. I have also seen overheated conversations be shut down or have content removed.

Wouldn't a conversation that could possibly lead to the death of a GSD be worthy of removal or warning?
 

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I wasn't necessarily thinking about the legalities of it, rather the inappropriateness of it.



I have seen conversations with the least bit of what might have brought about a political discussion get sniffed in a hurry. I have also seen overheated conversations be shut down or have content removed.



Wouldn't a conversation that could possibly lead to the death of a GSD be worthy of removal or warning?

You make a good point. But unless the advice is so horrible (beat your dog over the head with a metal pole until it stops barking) that death or severe harm is a KNOWN outcome, then it's up to members to be responsible and research medical advice. Pepto, immodium, are not GUARANTEED to kill a dog. They can be used successfully. There are risks. And it's up to an owner to do their due diligence before giving their animal something mentioned on the Internet. Again. Obnoxious gray area
 

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Uhm, my vet told me to use pepto.

They don't like pepto, and immodium comes in pills that I can fling down their throats. So I use that instead. The vet said that was ok too.

A vet can listen to symptoms over the phone, and tell you to give hydrogen peroxide to get the dog to throw up -- been there, done that.

My thing is to have as much information as possible, call the vet and let them make the call as to whether I should bring the critter in or not. Knowing what the temperature is, and whether they ate their food this morning, etc. along with whatever symptoms I was seeing gives them the info they need, then they can tell me to bring her right up, or make an appointment for her tomorrow, or rush her to the ER, or take two immodiums and call me in the morning.

But, I agree, most of the advice on threads about dogs acting strangely, or sickness ought to be, "call your vet and tell them this" or "get in the car now and get your pup to the vet ASAP!"

But dogs do not talk and tell their symptoms, and when they are stressed, they mask a lot. And our breed is prone to many diseases, and here you have a lot of people who have seen a lot of them. Sometimes it is helpful for us to know what questions to ask and what tests we want a vet to run when we go to the vet. So asking about medical issues here does have a lot of value. At the end of the day, people need to realize that they are responsible for their pet's healthcare, and they really shouldn't make decisions solely on what somebody told them in a public forum.
 

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I think part of the problem with getting advice off the internet is people will always attempt to self-medicate and that itself is fine, for humans at least. If we have a headache, we go pop a few pills of aspirin, or if we have a cold, we go pop a chlorpheniramine. And if our symptoms don't ease, we go to the doc. For the most part this works because we are able to articulate and understand what is wrong.

But when dogs are in pain, they cannot communicate their symptoms to us. In any medical diagnosis, information is key. For example, if it is diarrhea, it could be indigestion, parasites, IBS or a plethora of other things. As a human, you could probably guess what is wrong; did I eat too much or did I eat something dirty and you could communicate this. Dogs do not have that level of sophistication to tell us how they got that diarrhea, so all we can go on is history of our dogs' diet and environment and attempt to treat it. But this information you have can be incomplete, especially when trying to articulate this to someone over the internet when seeking advice. It is totally different as opposed to in-person.

That said, even MDs and vets do get diagnosis wrong sometimes and you need two or three trips to the doc to get things right, and they are right there in front of you trying to treat you or your dog.

So unless you're really confident, I don't think anyone should self-medicate any animal. But of course, you shouldn't knee jerk yourself into bringing your animal to the vet at every instance of loose poo for instance, unless it is an emergency. Sometimes being too knee jerk can be harmful to the animal too, stress of transportation and visiting the vet can aggravate simple illnesses. Dogs are just as resillient as humans and just as we can sleep off a flu, so can dogs.
 

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Actually, for some of us, writing it out on the internet is a lot less stressful, and we probably remember more than we when we are standing there, having our 5 minutes with the vet. How many times have I remember the rest of the story while driving the dog home?

Typing it out first might actually be very helpful.
 

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Writing things down is actually a good idea. Thats because you're seated down, slowly typing and detailing everything you've observed, versus rushing through telling the vet everything in one breath.

Still just because we're not MDs or vets, they do detect details which we did not think were necessary. For example, to most of us, red spots would just be a rash, but to a doc, red spots could be a plethora of things like ringworm, mange, allergies, etc... depending on how they are laid out on skin, to most of us, red spots are just red spots.
 

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Writing things down is actually a good idea. Thats because you're seated down, slowly typing and detailing everything you've observed, versus rushing through telling the vet everything in one breath.

Still just because we're not MDs or vets, they do detect details which we did not think were necessary. For example, to most of us, red spots would just be a rash, but to a doc, red spots could be a plethora of things like ringworm, mange, allergies, etc... depending on how they are laid out on skin, to most of us, red spots are just red spots.
Red spots? Staph infection -- usually, at least on my girls.
 

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Red spots? Staph infection -- usually, at least on my girls.
Thats the thing though, that is YOUR dog and you know what might affect her depending on the environment and you can pick out the appropriate treatment. For most people posting their dog's ailments on the internet seeking help, red spots could be a range of problems and you will see "helpers" come up with all types of diagnoses and treatments, some of which might not be doc approved. And thats because we don't really know the dog, nor the environment and diet they have and that is a recipe for disaster.

Which is why anyone without experience shouldn't be seeking help on the internet and should immediately seek a doctor's opinion.
 

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Thats the thing though, that is YOUR dog and you know what might affect her depending on the environment and you can pick out the appropriate treatment. For most people posting their dog's ailments on the internet seeking help, red spots could be a range of problems and you will see "helpers" come up with all types of diagnoses and treatments, some of which might not be doc approved. And thats because we don't really know the dog, nor the environment and diet they have and that is a recipe for disaster.

Which is why anyone without experience shouldn't be seeking help on the internet and should immediately seek a doctor's opinion.
I agree in an emergency people should go to the vet as soon as possible and most people will tell a poster to do that. I always question when someone starts giving out dosages of both prescription and OTC medications UNLESS I know the person well.

However, I'm not sure I can agree completely with you ... when someone presents a problem we often share our experiences when applicable ... share what treatment worked or didn't work, etc. Most advice isn't "do this" or "do that" but more suggestions on what the poster can do. And even then it's often with a suggestion to go to the vet or go to an emergency hospital if it sounds serious.
 

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I agree in an emergency people should go to the vet as soon as possible and most people will tell a poster to do that. I always question when someone starts giving out dosages of both prescription and OTC medications UNLESS I know the person well.

However, I'm not sure I can agree completely with you ... when someone presents a problem we often share our experiences when applicable ... share what treatment worked or didn't work, etc. Most advice isn't "do this" or "do that" but more suggestions on what the poster can do. And even then it's often with a suggestion to go to the vet or go to an emergency hospital if it sounds serious.
I got to disagree because sharing experience can be misconstrued as medical advice. I don't think anyone should "play doctor" over the internet especially if they are not medical professionals. Any symptom can manifest with variety of pathological causes which are unknown by regular joes.

There is a reason medical professionals are protected by medical indemnity, it is so they can do their best to treat their patients without fear of being sued. There is a reason why they have that MD or DVM because they know what is going on. So for the safety of yourself and your pets, do seek professional help if you are unsure instead of relying on the internet. Unless you are really sure, why are you putting your dog at risk just to save a few bucks on consultation?
 

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Even though Pepto may be harmless in some situations it may be very contradictory in others. What if the sick dog or pup has something else going on, something the dog is masking or the owner didn't notice? A drop of blood on the floor, pale gums, increased heartbeat, fever or abdominal swelling?

If the dog is ill with something other than a minor upset stomach and must go to the vet after it gets this remedy, will the Pepto on board hinder proper treatment? Just a quick check on the Pepto home page revealed no less than 262 drugs (under more than 1,300 brand names) that Pepto reacts unfavorably with. Also, if there is some bleeding internally, Pepto can be a problem also, if there's impaired kidney function it says not to use.
 

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Well, I have to admit, that it was reading this site that got me to ask for the EPI test for Gretta. My vet did encourage me to use Enzyme Diane rather than buy them through them.

But asking for Tylan also came from this site. And then, going on the net got me a bottle for $65, when my vet sells if for $130.

Sometimes, the people here do give us information that gets the vet on the right track. And sometimes people here know more about the health concerns of our breed then some vets. Sometimes, we have to know enough to be our dogs' advocate, and that sometimes means challenging a vet or getting a second opinion if it doesn't seem right. Having that extra knowledge has saved lives.

I think we have an awesome tool, and some of us have no business picking it up, while others of us can do rudimentary cuts with it, and others of us can do some pretty intricate stuff with it. Ultimately the dog is ours, we are responsible for it. If we choose to give something someone on the internet suggested a try, because they have seen something similar in the same breed, that is a decision we can make.
 

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This is the internet. Your not going to be able to legislate everything a person says or how they say it. It is dependent upon the person reading to have just a smidgen of common sense. For as long as the internet has been around, heck for as long as people have been around there has been misinformation. It is up to the person wanting information to sort through to first see what has the ring of truth to it and then to put that information to the acid test to see what actually holds up. Or get this if you want fairly accurate information you either go to your vet or to a website that is a recognized authority. These forum boards are mainly just good to get ideas, to bounce things around to see how they sound to others. But if you take any of these forum boards too seriously or to think people on the other side of the screen are experts just because they claim to be. And you don't know them. Your headed for disaster. Come on Ladies I'm telling you I'm a French model.
 

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This is the internet. Your not going to be able to legislate everything a person says or how they say it. It is dependent upon the person reading to have just a smidgen of common sense.
'nuff said
 
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