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I've been watching this thread and hoping for a good outcome as I'm sure many have and figured with pages of skillful help there would be a good outcome for all.

I don't understand why you are so dying to know about the pups when they are no longer in your care. The people who have vested their time trying to help are probably heartbroken over this especially where your relief came via CL.

This beautiful dam is in full lactation. The hormones will not subside quickly. The mammory glands will become full and painful and there is a chance that they will become impacted. I know this thruough my own nursing and that of a cat while growing up. I hope you research how to care for a lactating bitch who needs help to relieve pressure as her body responds to the lack of nursing and begins to dry up.

The pics of those beautiful pups made me want to cry and I am not one to cry easily.

Op, it looks like you did a lot but maybe you just aren't aware how your last post appears to those who are reading it.

My best wishes and thoughts are with this beautiful dam and those pups.
 

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Sadly, CL is a cesspool of wannabe rescuers who don't know what they're doing, scammers who want free puppies to sell, and worse. For future readers, TRUST NO ONE on CL without doing significant due diligence.

Hopefully OP was responsible about it and didn't just hand-off the litter to a stranger without a background check just to be rid of the pups: he or she hopefully checked the 501(c)(3) status of this unknown all-breed rescue, called the rescue's vet to get a reference check on quality of care they provide (as any legitimate rescue would encourage you to do), and inquired as to community reputation with other rescues, shelter directors, etc (again, legitimate rescues would be happy to provide community references, as we have worked hard to build goodwill). Hopefully he or she also read their adoption contract and adoption qualifications (speutering contract, taking the pups back if it doesn't work out, training requirements, quality of placement, home checks, etc.), so you have peace of mind that they'll place the pups well and handle returns so that they don't eventually end up in a shelter.

There are some dumb all-breed rescues who see "possibly purebred puppies" and think that a money-making fundraiser fell into their laps. They don't know what they're in for --- and quickly get overwhelmed.

It's too late now, but when OP talked to the rescue's vet (you did that, OP, right?), there should have been a plan to get these 12-day old pups through this dangerous period without their mama, and a discussion of this foster's track-record with bottle-fed litters. When there are orphaned litters, this sometimes happens, but often some of the pups don't all survive bottle-feeding....which is why we move heaven and earth to find mama....one rescue I know even went looking in shelters for a lactating F who lost her litter to be a "wet nurse" (after a neg parvo test and careful temperament screen), as it increased the odds of the litter's survival (and she was fab with them).

That was hopefully all discussed with the rescue's vet and OP, so OP and the rescue made an informed choice ...for some reason, their vet thought was really important to "orphan" this litter....surely no one would separate mama and pups like this without talking to their vet about what's best for the pups. Even in shelters when the mama is feral and can't be handled and has to be separated from pups earlier than anyone would like, it's the shelter's vet who makes that call. Right, OP....?
 

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Who knows and who cares if they are purebred. They aren't yours anymore. And in the end probably a good thing. No pup should be raised by someone willing to separate them from their mother at 2 weeks.

I am sorry, but I am beyond disgusted. These pups may live. That's maybe what you should by "dying to find out" -- if they survive at all. If they somehow get through the next two weeks, these people will be probably passing them around to people at PetsMart to haul around the store with them -- yep, I've seen that.

Your bitch was rightfully upset with these people who came to your home. They were threatening to her babies. She is in momma-bear mode. You perhaps do not understand how helpless those babies are and their life-line is their mother. It wasn't maybe your fault for taking her in, not knowing she was pregnant. But once you took on that responsibility...

I guess what is done is done. Or maybe not. You should never have separated the pups from the dam or given pups that young to people who are fearful and not expecting the dam to be somewhat fearful, protective, and even aggressive. How are they going to bottle raise puppies. Puppies that have a lot to learn from their dam. I wish you could get the puppies back and home them with someone experienced with raising GSDs.

I am sorry no one here was in a position to take the dam and litter off of your hands. Your post sounded like you were willing to wait the six weeks until the pups were ready to be separated. And if that were the case the least amount of stress -- no more changing hands, would've been better for the dam and puppies. If that were not the case, if that is not what you had projected, maybe these babies would be safe and their dam would be settling in with someone who knows what they are doing.
 

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??? That poor momma she has been and going through so much. You sound very overwhelmed. Maybe you can fix this and get the puppies back. It is worth a try. Then contact a real rescue with references and give the pups and mother over to them.
 

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Well, according to this post, OP is now saying the rescue is taking mom AND the pups for 6 weeks:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-behavior/711161-reintroducing-post-partem-female-male-after-6-weeks.html

("Found a rescue willing to take Mom with pups and give Mom back when pups are weaned. She will be gone six weeks")

Maybe we can all breathe a collective sigh of relief for the pups.
Unfortunately from timeline and posts it looks like those were the people that showed up, and took just the pups.
 

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It's So. Cal that has an excess of GSDs and even malinois. But places like Portland and Seattle import dogs.

I might try to contact a GSD or other rescue "up north" and see if they can help you. My friend and I found an entire litter of dumped lab-mix puppies at a state park in Southern Illinois years ago. She contacted a rescue based out of Minnesota or Wisconsin, and they provided transport and even gave her some $ for puppy food. She kept the pups for a week or so before they were transported north and all were immediately adopted. The pups were weaned, though (probably 8 weeks or so when we found them).

You can probably find a similar rescue north of you, who might be willing to help. The difficulty might be that rescues don't want to work with you because you technically "own" the pups, even though you had nothing to do with breeding them. But it's certainly worth some phone calls or emails. It's going to be tough to find good homes where you are, even though OC is super wealthy in parts, I think there is still a pet overpopulation problem.

Thank you for taking care of the pups! Once they get mobile it is even more work, and clean-up!! so if you don't feel like dealing with that, a rescue might be able to provide foster care for mom and pups until they are weaned.
Yes, I have a rescued chihuahua that came up from CA. and I am in the Seattle area. Good luck with your pups!!! A rescue sounds like a good way to go.
 

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A new mom-dog with 2 week old pups is not generally going to welcome strangers. This is still when many mama-dogs don't even want to leave their pups for more than a few minutes at a stretch. These babies are totally helpless, eyes, ears hardly functioning yet, waddling about just looking for milk and warmth. They need their mother to teach them many things and to be there for security, guidance as they grow. Mom is still helping them eliminate and cleaning up after them.

Watching a mother dog play with her pups when they start walking is beautiful. I wish she could have kept her pups for at least another four weeks.

I'm sure that mama-dog is not only mourning losing her babies, but in pain from swollen nipples. Her hormones are telling her that she is a nursing mother- it is very confusing and sad for her to not have pups to care for at this stage.

I'm sorry to hear this outcome. How very sad for pups. And they'll lose mom's immunity, as well, and all the benefits of being "breast fed" which are many, particularly with pups who mature so quickly.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
ive never dealt with any of this before, and came here desperate for advice. its been stressful hoping for the best outcome. first off, no i dont care at all about breed of dogs beyond curiosity. i dont even know why i put that in post because it really was the last thing on my mind. in retrospect i see how that makes me seem totally flippant and petty regarding the situation. at the time i posted the update i was still deluded to think i made the right decision. but thats not here nor there. my experience has been with adult dogs. and at that its been fairly limited. i never dealt with a pregnant bitch or puppies. in this case i deferred to the rescue Assuming they knew whats best. seeing the reactions here plus the situation im dealing with at home obviously i made a very bad decision, which unfortunately can happen when you are dealing with a new situation and stressed. if you read my posts you can clearly my only priority was the mother and the puppies. the eventual outcome wasnt made with any malicious intentions on my part. my post regarding the outcome, the tone of it may be off because i was confused, still trusting i did what was best while feeling dirty and used at the same time. that being said, im not here to pass blame, i take responsibility for my actions.
so the rescue, which of course i did my best to check out with thr resources available to me, was taking mom and pups. at last minute the foster refused to take mom, which is when i volunteered to keep pups the full 8 weeks. They didnt like this option. meanwhile, emotion wad hijacking reason and logic in my own brain and started to sorry about my female because she was stressed.
what happened next i take full responsibility of and clearly see my mistakes. i was basically conned into thinking the best option was surrendering only the pups. had i been ignorant to what really was best i wouldnt have been as culpable but the problem is that i did know. i shouldn't of allowed them to tell me what was best when I knew it wasnt. i made a big mistake. someone mentioned that clearly i am not ready for pups so its perhaps good they are gone. i think i clearly stated this pretty much from the beginning, i never deluded myself to believe i was ready for this. even still i could of done another 6 weeks. i understand the frustration and anger directed at me, I deserve it. i came here for help and guidance and really tried (and ultimately failed) to do what was best. i can stand by that at least, hopefully seperating myself from people who automatically will take the easiest way out without any attempt to find a good solutions
so now this situation really isnt "resolved" at all. mom is in discomfort and pain and seeing the vet tomorrow. and here i am whining about how its unfair because i tried so dont be mean to me. clearly, this rescue wanted these pups regardless of there welfare. can pups like this be profitable enough to motivate someone to represent themselves in a deceptive way to gain ownership of them? i thought that backyard bred dogs, unpapered from a mystery sire would not break even if sold after care and expenses. in other words didnt think pups would be worth much for sale so didnt even think that someone might con there way into owning pups. are there people that do this kind of thing for monetary gain?
ironic how what got me in trouble to begin with (Craigslist) would ultimately do the same again. just like i naively assumed she wasnt pregnant i naively assumed pups were going to a good place and these people knew more than me and were guiding me in the right direction. obviously i have impulsivity and trust issues that need to be worked out.
thank you very much for all the thorough, thought out and helpful responses. i tend to write these pretty quick and they dont always best reflect what im feeling but please know i take this very seriously and see my mistakes. i feel sick.to my stomach right now and am really upset at a lot of things, mostly myself. right now my focus is caring for mom. pups are out of my hands. thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #55
a painful lesson for sure, and im shocked i didn't learn when i adopted the mom. i really am very dissapointed in myself that i went along with eveything so willingly.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Well, according to this post, OP is now saying the rescue is taking mom AND the pups for 6 weeks:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-behavior/711161-reintroducing-post-partem-female-male-after-6-weeks.html

("Found a rescue willing to take Mom with pups and give Mom back when pups are weaned. She will be gone six weeks")

Maybe we can all breathe a collective sigh of relief for the pups.

that was of course the plan, which wasnt changed until last minute when they showed up for mom and pups. i offered to keep pups with mom and they told me that wasnt an option.
 

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Are you able to get the pups back? They really need their mom!

It is an awful situation that you have been put in from the start, but it seems to be going from bad to worse for the poor mom and her pups.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Who knows and who cares if they are purebred. They aren't yours anymore. And in the end probably a good thing. No pup should be raised by someone willing to separate them from their mother at 2 weeks.

I am sorry, but I am beyond disgusted. These pups may live. That's maybe what you should by "dying to find out" -- if they survive at all. If they somehow get through the next two weeks, these people will be probably passing them around to people at PetsMart to haul around the store with them -- yep, I've seen that.

Your bitch was rightfully upset with these people who came to your home. They were threatening to her babies. She is in momma-bear mode. You perhaps do not understand how helpless those babies are and their life-line is their mother. It wasn't maybe your fault for taking her in, not knowing she was pregnant. But once you took on that responsibility...

I guess what is done is done. Or maybe not. You should never have separated the pups from the dam or given pups that young to people who are fearful and not expecting the dam to be somewhat fearful, protective, and even aggressive. How are they going to bottle raise puppies. Puppies that have a lot to learn from their dam. I wish you could get the puppies back and home them with someone experienced with raising GSDs.

I am sorry no one here was in a position to take the dam and litter off of your hands. Your post sounded like you were willing to wait the six weeks until the pups were ready to be separated. And if that were the case the least amount of stress -- no more changing hands, would've been better for the dam and puppies. If that were not the case, if that is not what you had projected, maybe these babies would be safe and their dam would be settling in with someone who knows what they are doing.
regarding breed of pups, that comment seems absurd given the full context of the situation. at the time i was still clinging to hope i did the right thing and everything was fine, so some inane cutsie little comment about breed maybe in that context would seem less flippant. the worst part of it is I knew all this. i knew seperating puppies early is a terrible idea. i got advice here and read a lot on the subject the past couple of weeks. why would i assume because someone says they are something (a knowledgable selfless dog lover who has a wealth of experience with this type of thing who can assure you are doing right thing) its the same issue a reactive dog has- emotion hijacks reason. its not an excuse but rather a lesson and warning for someone else who may come across this thread in the future who is in a similar situation.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
the rescue wouldnt willingly release puppies back to me. they stand by there decision im sure. all i know is foster isnt willing to tske mom and shelter wouldnt consider better alternatives like me fostering pups. i mentionrd financial strain of situation in an earlier conversation with them which was used against me when i offered to foster. i ws under impression fosters didnt typically pay out of pocket for food. either way, in retrospect, her real concern was me changing my mind after six weeks
 
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