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Discussion Starter #21
I contacted several local rescues and Burbank gsd rescue responded. I explained that I was concerned that if I tried to rehome pups myself I wouldn't be able to vet adopters and would be concerned about continuing the breeding cycle of these pups, or dogs being dumped when they are adolescents or worse. I asked if they had resources to help find good homes. They responded by saying I'll have no problem finding "buyers" but that they don't help people "sell" their puppies. Either I didn't explain my situation clearly enough or they didn't believe the that the pups were result of someone elses irresponsibility or mistake. I tried to explain I wasn't looking for money for pups, only GOOD homes. I didn't hear back but if anyone has advice on a better way to approach rescues for help placing puppies, let me know.
Mom gets up quite a bit from puppies; of course she has to eat and go to bathroom but she is up and down all day. Is this normal? She is easily distracted. I've gotten bully sticks and soup bones to supplement food and reduce stress but when a bone is out she completely forgets about pups and becomes fixated on getting another bone all day- trying to take my males bone or searching for more, which usually don't exist as I only buy two at a time. Any time I go into kitchen she jumps up, even if puppies are on her nipples, to see if I am getting more bones. For now I'm not giving her any more bones.
Also, ive been worried about mom stepping on or laying on top of puppies. First version of the whelping box was too small and hard for her to get in and avoid puppies. I made adjustments which has helped considerably but I'm still worried about accidents. The puppies crawl behind and under her making it hard for her to not end up on top of one or two. I've been near by for most of the day and if not my fiance is (although she seems more comfortable with me handling pups) but I'm sure a time will come where she will have to be left alone. How worried should I be about a dog being crushed or suffocated?
 

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I'd call them and explain that you rescued a dog that turned out be be pregnant and are now uncertain as to what to do.

I'd imagine they thought you were trying to just use their resources to sell puppies not that you pretty much rescued a dog. Sometimes certain key words are needed.
 

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That's what I was afraid of with the rescues and the backstory. Hopefully someone on here can offer some guidance.

I adopted a stray GSD and looked into placing her with a "rescue" (then ended up keeping her, a good decision) and got the same type of answer. As soon as you adopt a dog, no matter the circumstances, you are the owner and "rescues" don't seem to like that backstory much.
 

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(Assuming that you are willing...) Specify that you will keep the pups until homes are found and that the adoption fee will go to them. I have done this with dogs in the past thru westside, positive experiences - used their application and their volunteers did the homecheck. I was essientially the foster home.
 

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Yes it can happen -- a bitch can crush/suffocate a puppy. I use a pig rail in a 4' square box. Also, I do not use blankets or sheets, because a pup can get up under them or in the folds and smother. I use newspapers, at least for the first couple of weeks. They sell a box for about $120 on e-bay, easy to put together, wood, has the pig rail, and they can ship it quickly. I have two of them, because after about two weeks, 1 box gets to be crowded. And, it is easier to move the pups from one box into the other, and put the door way up while you clean the one box. Then you move them to the other side and clean that, then your remove the door panel and they have both areas.

I wouldn't give her bully sticks or bones. Both can contain salmonella and it is an unnecessary risk to the baby puppies. Also, she is too concerned about them, that she is neglecting her puppies? I would just stop them. If you want to give her a treat, give her white ice cream.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
We are getting a little stressed with the situation. My male dog is a basket case, mom has gone after him unprovoked a few times. No damage was done but he is fearful and miserable. Not to mention he is spending more time alone than he is used to. Not having any experience with newborn pups I am constantly worried. A few behaviors that concerned me:when Mom is brought outside she acts as if she is maybe looking for a better spot for the puppies- exploring any little nook or under house. Right now puppies are in a whelping box in a walk in closet in my bedroom. It's where she gave birth to them. I keep the door shut and besides my girl no dog or person has been in bedroom. I hung a tapestry in the closet over whelping box to make it feel more hidden and help retain warmth.
Since my last post she has seemed more attentive to puppies, but I'm still curious how much time the mother spends with puppies. I'd say she is spending 60-70% of her time either in whelping box or right next to it. She is never far and does respond when she hears them cry. But she seems to want to be near me and my girlfriend a lot. We try to stay near pups when she is like this.
Puppies are growing a lot every day and have become quite mobile. All look very healthy and well fed. They get pretty vocal at times, including when feeding. I always check to see if they are ok, temp is ok, no one is being squished when I hear them etc. but do pups this young vocalize for no reason at times?
I think we are maybe leaning towards keeping mom and pups here for at least 8 weeks. My concern is with the mom. I think a new home would be to stressful. She has only been in our care for a month, and she doesn't warm up right away to people.
Thanks again for responses
 

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Discussion Starter #27
(Assuming that you are willing...) Specify that you will keep the pups until homes are found and that the adoption fee will go to them. I have done this with dogs in the past thru westside, positive experiences - used their application and their volunteers did the homecheck. I was essientially the foster home.
Is westside down here in socal? They sound familiar. I might have already emailed them. I did explain to Burbank I wasn't trying to collect any money for puppies but didn't hear back. I'm going to try the other rescue around here and the two in orange county. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Yes it can happen -- a bitch can crush/suffocate a puppy. I use a pig rail in a 4' square box. Also, I do not use blankets or sheets, because a pup can get up under them or in the folds and smother. I use newspapers, at least for the first couple of weeks. They sell a box for about $120 on e-bay, easy to put together, wood, has the pig rail, and they can ship it quickly. I have two of them, because after about two weeks, 1 box gets to be crowded. And, it is easier to move the pups from one box into the other, and put the door way up while you clean the one box. Then you move them to the other side and clean that, then your remove the door panel and they have both areas.

I wouldn't give her bully sticks or bones. Both can contain salmonella and it is an unnecessary risk to the baby puppies. Also, she is too concerned about them, that she is neglecting her puppies? I would just stop them. If you want to give her a treat, give her white ice cream.
Yeah I quickly discovered that two whelping boxes are helpful. A real professionally made whelping box would be a lot of help, do pet stores ever carry them? Haven't seen any at local stores (red Barn, Petco etc.) I hate ordering online, no patience. Honestly at this point number one priority is keeping mom fed as she is always hungry. I'm throwing money away buying smaller bags because my vehicle is in the shop and it's a bit far of a walk for large bag. We weren't sure if we were in financial position for two adults dogs- we determined we could swing it but we definitely aren't in position for two dogs and seven puppies, so we have really tightened the belts. I see need for a safe whelping box but $120 would be a lot for us right now. I have family help available for pet (or human) emergencies which of course is an excellent asset. Still, I'd like to see if can make my homemade one safer.
Once I saw mom getting weird with bully sticks I stopped giving them to her. Didn't know about salmonella risk, good to know. Are there risks to puppies with raw beef soup bones for mom?
 

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It's hard to say. if the raw beef bones have salmonella on them, than the puppies contracting it from being licked and fed by the dam is a possibility. I would hold off of raw bones or raw eggs until the pups are at their adult temperature, about 3 weeks old. Some raw feeders wean pups onto raw food. So it is just the neonatal pups that might have a major issue.

Yes, they make noise. They are whelps. If you sit and watch the bitch, she will ignore some sounds, and other sounds she will zero right in on. She needs to help them potty, they cannot do it on their own. So they become uncomfortable, and she licks and cleans them and it allows them to urinate and defecate, and she eats that up. So when the puppies make certain squeals she knows her job. And usually when she is lying in the box and they are feeding, she will be cleaning them and helping them potty. It is amazing how much she knows.

After the pups are a week old or so, you will have to cut the ends of their nails. Their nails will become sharp and the bitch will not want to lie in there and feed them because it will start hurting her. Sometimes it is best to separate it into two days. Get a small dog toenail clipper, and clip the little ends off. Try not to nick the quick. If you do it isn't the end of the world. it will bleed a little and you can stop it with flour or corn startch. But they will be squirmier after you quick them.

It's a tough job, but it goes pretty fast, really. And you will get to love the babies, once their personalities start showing.
 

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Hello,
I'm new to this forum and to German shepherd dogs, but I recently purchased my 15 week old GSD from a neighbor who's female had her 8 puppies in a large blow up kiddie pool in the garage of her home. The mom and pups were safe, and had plenty room to move around and feed pups without any problems. Plus, as pups got older they could move about freely, but couldn't get out of pool due to high sides. I thought it was the perfect set up for the process. Also, It was easy to feed them and clean up after the puppies, too. I don't know if you have room for a kiddie pool, but it's just a thought...
 

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Discussion Starter #31
It's hard to say. if the raw beef bones have salmonella on them, than the puppies contracting it from being licked and fed by the dam is a possibility. I would hold off of raw bones or raw eggs until the pups are at their adult temperature, about 3 weeks old. Some raw feeders wean pups onto raw food. So it is just the neonatal pups that might have a major issue.

Yes, they make noise. They are whelps. If you sit and watch the bitch, she will ignore some sounds, and other sounds she will zero right in on. She needs to help them potty, they cannot do it on their own. So they become uncomfortable, and she licks and cleans them and it allows them to urinate and defecate, and she eats that up. So when the puppies make certain squeals she knows her job. And usually when she is lying in the box and they are feeding, she will be cleaning them and helping them potty. It is amazing how much she knows.

After the pups are a week old or so, you will have to cut the ends of their nails. Their nails will become sharp and the bitch will not want to lie in there and feed them because it will start hurting her. Sometimes it is best to separate it into two days. Get a small dog toenail clipper, and clip the little ends off. Try not to nick the quick. If you do it isn't the end of the world. it will bleed a little and you can stop it with flour or corn startch. But they will be squirmier after you quick them.

It's a tough job, but it goes pretty fast, really. And you will get to love the babies, once their personalities start showing.
Days have flown by, I was thinking I was on day 7 and it's actually been 12 days. A few eyes have opened and they are starting to try to walk. They have gotten pretty vocal, including little baby barks.
What has been stressful is the impact on my male who has gotten pretty withdrawn over fear of the mother. She hasn't even done much to him, mostly just growled, but there were a few fights early on I guess he never got over. I think the fact that they were unprovoked and she didnt engage in any posturing and just attacked has him afraid of her unpredictability. Also I'm concerned about the impact my males presence has on the mother. I don't want to feel threatened.
Having my male stay with someone else isn't an option. He also a gsd rescue. He is a red sable male. I assume at least part working line and is possibly mixed. He is super reactive and dog aggressive if not patiently introduced, barks at everything and can be a bully to people he thinks are pushovers. Four years of work with behaviorists and there have been small but significant improvements but he is still super high maintenance. If he sees a dog while out on a walk he will injure someone not prepared for his reaction.
His issues are fodder for a new thread in a different section but suffice to say he isn't a dog you send off to stay with your sister while puppies are weaned.
Also it's not his first time living with another dog he is only aggressive towards dogs he doesn't know. Again probably a new topic here but I'm wondering how much a lasting effect this will have on him, as I'm assuming her aggression will wane once puppies are weaned and when she is spayed.
 

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Boot camp. six weeks. You can do anything for six weeks. Your dog (male) can be crated for six weeks with two bathroom breaks a day. I know this because when my boy shattered his leg back in the nineties, that was the vet advice -- 8 weeks in a crate, out twice a day to potty.

I am not suggesting you do this. But you need to completely separate your boy from the bitch and puppies. You need to give him some training time, once or twice a day, more than just a walk around the block. You need to interact during the walk, having him do sits and downs, and come-front, changes in direction, speed up, slow down, make him watch you. Exercise his mind as well as his body. Lots of success and praise. Then back home and put him in his safe spot.

I think you need to consider keeping a puppy and letting the bitch go back to the rescue AFTER the pups are 8 weeks old. I think your boy will handle a female, if brought in as a puppy much better than an adult of either sex, and a male pup might become a problem down the line.

Don't feel bad that it isn't working between your boy and this girl. Do keep her and her litter until they are ready to go though. She has had enough stress at a very stressful time.

I really do not think you have the resources to keep a bitch and a dog that are likely to injure each other badly. Your boy will survive the separation/safe place for six weeks. And after the bitch and the other pups have gone to the rescue or their new homes, he can be carefully introduced to the puppy. And if that doesn't work out after the old college try, you can find the puppy a good home, and just have the one dog.

The good news is that by 12 days, the puppies are less likely to be suffocated in any way. And, your bitch may be spending less time in there if their nails are beating her up. Check their nails.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Boot camp. six weeks. You can do anything for six weeks. Your dog (male) can be crated for six weeks with two bathroom breaks a day. I know this because when my boy shattered his leg back in the nineties, that was the vet advice -- 8 weeks in a crate, out twice a day to potty.

I am not suggesting you do this. But you need to completely separate your boy from the bitch and puppies. You need to give him some training time, once or twice a day, more than just a walk around the block. You need to interact during the walk, having him do sits and downs, and come-front, changes in direction, speed up, slow down, make him watch you. Exercise his mind as well as his body. Lots of success and praise. Then back home and put him in his safe spot.

I think you need to consider keeping a puppy and letting the bitch go back to the rescue AFTER the pups are 8 weeks old. I think your boy will handle a female, if brought in as a puppy much better than an adult of either sex, and a male pup might become a problem down the line.

Don't feel bad that it isn't working between your boy and this girl. Do keep her and her litter until they are ready to go though. She has had enough stress at a very stressful time.

I really do not think you have the resources to keep a bitch and a dog that are likely to injure each other badly. Your boy will survive the separation/safe place for six weeks. And after the bitch and the other pups have gone to the rescue or their new homes, he can be carefully introduced to the puppy. And if that doesn't work out after the old college try, you can find the puppy a good home, and just have the one dog.

The good news is that by 12 days, the puppies are less likely to be suffocated in any way. And, your bitch may be spending less time in there if their nails are beating her up. Check their nails.
Male and female are completely separated except for brief period when she is brought outside. I don't have a huge house but big enough to separate both dogs. Although never crate trained I'm actually crating him now for first time ever and with absolutely no resistance on his part for as long as a couple of hours. He likes the security and sensory deprivation. For all his reactivity he has a great off switch. He is 100 percent separated from pups at all times. I was going to see how the dynamic was after puppies were placed before deciding about rehoming her. I would of course really like to avoid that but if I have to I will.
I hate to say this because I know it is born out of fear but he is better behaved and less reactive with the female around. Will it be possible to build some bonding between them when her hormones go down?
I've thought about boot camp. What kind of liability would I have if he were to injure another dog? I'm sure there well equipped to handle that of course I'm just super careful about ever placing him in anybody else's hands.
 

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I'm sure there well equipped to handle that of course I'm just super careful about ever placing him in anybody else's hands.

Now, there's something I REALLY like to hear! Have heard far too many horror tales over the years, of dogs that were totally messed up, starved, or even sold/lost by some idiot who claimed to be a trainer!

If you go this route, be very careful in making your choice. I'd also visit frequently to observe the training and check on my dog.
 

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Boot camp to me is not sending the dog away for training. It is a rallying call I have for myself. Boot Camp! I can do anything for 6 or 10 or 12 weeks, think of it as boot camp. Boot camp is a less than ideal state, where we are expected to do what we must, but it has a definite end. It is kind of like saying, "we can get through this."

I don't suggest sending dogs away for training, pretty much ever.

the hormones will come down in the bitch. But it sounds like that the dog, having his own set of issues, might not bounce back as dogs generally do. So her hormones will probably relax as the litter ages, but your boy is likely not to forget and to harbor a fear of her after what is normal.

With good temperament, a bitch might attack a cat or dog when she is late in pregnancy or if she has young puppies, when normally the bitch would rub up against the cat, and play with the dog or at least mate with him. Cats tend not to show proper respect for their canine brethren. So who cares if the cat exhibits a more healthy respect for a bitch after a pregnancy. But dogs who have a good temperament can bounce back even from dog fights where blood is drawn, relatively quicikly -- dogs NOT bitches. Bitches are like us. They remember forEVER. What you have is a dog that probably is dog-reactive out of fearfulness, and this doesn't seem to go away, even when the bitch is back to normal. He might continue to bark, lunge, act a fool, even when she is back to normal, because he doesn't get it. It will be far easier to acclimate him to a puppy and as the puppy grows, he is not afraid of it because it has latched onto him as a surrogate parent and that usually works. Getting him used to a bitch that has already had words with him, I just don't know. It really depends on your dog.
 

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[quote/]So who cares if the cat exhibits a more healthy respect for a bitch after a pregnancy[/quote]

Somebody is not a cat person ?

IMHO your male will hold no grudge later. Pregnancy and protectiveness by the bitch is understood by your other dog instinctively. It seems to me that often people project their own feelings about an event like this - and more often than not it's not how the dog feels about it. Whether it seems like it or not, proximity now is actually conditioning both of them to "deal" with the others presence. Only time will tell if these two will manage to become friends, but your attitude will also play a major role. If keeping them both is a goal, give it time and try to be as low key as possible once they are allowed to mingle again...
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Situation has resolved, for better or worse. I asked about resources for finding homes for pups on CL and was contacted by a rescue willing to take in pups and find homes and to take Mom temporarily while pups nurse. This morning foster mom and her son came to get puppies and Shasta the adult female. Now I don't know what normal is for a post partem dog regarding meeting new people but she was very fearful and barked and growled and woman and her son. She has been shy in the past but never such a strong reaction. She had warmed up after just a few minutes in the past. I could tell the foster was very nervous and hadn't much experience fostering. I offered to keep mom and pups with me if rescue could donate some food. They didn't like this idea, probably worried id have second thoughts. They proposed to just take pups and bottle feed. Keeping my female home and not subjecting her to stress of another new home, especially due to how acutely stressed she was at the time I didn't argue. I actually was under impression California even had a law against seperating pups from Mom before 8 weeks. At that point I figured if they were willing to put in work for pups god bless. Hopefully the pups go quick and are able to generate some helpful revenue for the rescue to help all the senior dogs, mixed breeds, sick dogs etc. That don't attract interest like a pup.
So now it's about managing and improving dynamic between my male and female. Her hormones will return to normal and hopefully he be more comfortable around her.
I'm posting a few recent pics of pups I'm dying to know if they are mixed or not let me know what you think
 

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So the pups are gone, and you kept the Mom with you? Doesn't sound like a responsible rescue group to me, CL isn't the best place to go for pet animal resources. My guess is they will sell those pups as soon as they can.
 

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They took 2 week old pups from their mother????? And wouldn't consider letting them stay with you to keep them with their mother?????

Hand feeding pups is a HUGE task! That isn't even an logical choice.

It's to late now for any input on this situation but for anyone who is reading this in the future, this is not a reputable rescue nor an option any rescue I've ever worked with would choose to do.
 
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