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The dog should perceive a front on charge like that by someone failing to heed the commands to stop as a threat, not a friendly greeting. You really shouldn't have to convey defending himself to him at that point, but the handler has him postured and basically "loaded" to apprehend, not run away. I don't pretend to know all about police work or even whatever rules they have in that dept. But in that instance with that nut really initiating aggressive contact with the dog, and not getting bit? That's not what you want there.
 

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Lol I saw this video posted multiple times on Instagram. One of the working dog IG account pages went off on this and had a huge post about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
I also thought, I bet they won't shoot because of all the scrutiny over police shootings. I thought they coukd shoot if a person was likely to harm another person. So when he ran at the other guy that ought to have been enough. Even after he turned him loose it seems like he just demonstrated he is going to hurt the next person he gets near and you need to take him down.

But whatever. I don't know enough about when cops can use lethal force.

I hate to say it with the severity of the crimes but it did start of looking like a comedy skit.

Too bad the dog failed, that's exactly what they needed right then.
 

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I didn’t see the dog. The trooper did nothing wrong in waiting for back up. The suspect was behaving erratically and without purpose. Everything he did seemed random. They are lucky no one else was harmed.
 

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I also thought, I bet they won't shoot because of all the scrutiny over police shootings. I thought they coukd shoot if a person was likely to harm another person. So when he ran at the other guy that ought to have been enough. Even after he turned him loose it seems like he just demonstrated he is going to hurt the next person he gets near and you need to take him down.

But whatever. I don't know enough about when cops can use lethal force.

I hate to say it with the severity of the crimes but it did start of looking like a comedy skit.

Too bad the dog failed, that's exactly what they needed right then.
He obviously does not have a weapon and the officers are never really 'attacked'. He does harass the one but isn't really going after them with obvious serious intention to harm them. He's pretty easily deterred by the batons and mace so I can't see lethal force being justified.

If he had picked up a weapon and gone after the cop that's one thing. But he's probably very drugged up and mostly just wandering around. He does go after that one pedestrian, but again deterred by the cop and he goes back to wandering around.

Obviously it's terrible he murdered the people but minus that fact he was acting more like just a tweaked out streaker. He's jogging but doesn't seem to be trying to really evade them very much. I do agree with you it looked more like a skit. Which is awful to say but true.

In many cases of lethal force the police officer shoots because the people without warning reach to grab something. Think of like an old western, if you don't draw and shoot faster the other guy is going to shoot you. This guy obviously has no weapon or gun to grab so they use non-lethal methods to try to contain him until backup arrives.

Its a shame the dog didn't engage, hard to say what's happening there for me personally as I have no experience with that.
 

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Damned if you damned if you don't! This is a scenario that had THE best outcome IMHO, because the perp lives to go to court, and no one else was seriously injured!

He is obviously mentally ill, and could very well have been under the influence of an't kind of drug as well. PEOPLE, we should all praise the officers involved for showing so much restraint!

That being said, that dog has no future in police, or any other kind of protection, work! ANY DOG should have engaged that guy in that scenario! My dog "probably" would have, and she's had no training at all in protection...but he was charging up. Doesn't matter naked or not. Simply charging into our space "should" be enough...IMHO...

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The media was there and all being filmed. Two of the victims - a wife and son to a pro baseball player. I’m sure that would get extra media time. He also had no weapon and the crime was not thoroughly investigated. Im sure they were intent to follow protocol they were careful to bring him down in full view of filming and not in the woods. It sure did go down the best it could of went down. Maybe the dog was called off.
It would of been a mess for the police if they shot this guy unarmed on film even if he was jogging toward them ignoring orders with no weapon- there was no mistaking he had no weapon as he was naked. Also if it was known this man had some mental issue. The poor family. I understand the father was alive in the house not sure if he was shot or not -he has to live through his son shooting his wife, daughter and grandson.

In this article the dog was described as coralling the man which it does look like that as the dog ran around the car and also seems to go along /match with polices intent.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.godanriver.com/news/local/this-is-a-shock-to-our-community-sheriff-says-after/article_feb7262f-45c7-5e43-91aa-3ef5eb211c59.amp.html
 

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The only politics allowed here are dog politics.

Please refrain from political post unless they are specifically dog related.

Any infractions of this rule could result in temporary or permanent bans.

Thank you,

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My apologies, I was just stating my stance on what others had posted. I tend to forget the rules when I get little social interaction outside the forum.

And to anyone who replied to my comments, feel free to PM me, I don’t mind a debate, I find I actually learn a lot from them.
 

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After watching this small piece of video a few times, I do not think the dog was commanded to engage. After the dog rounded the vehicle, it appears the officer is then utilizing the dog in tracking. It amazes me that so many people make judgment (on social media - not necessarily here) on a scenario that they are not personally participating in and in which they see a few short moments in time from a video.
 

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Looked to me that the guy was putting his hands up so the cop called the dog off, then when the guy started to run away he called the dog back. Maybe the cop was afraid he'd grab the mans bone. :)
 

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Since some people were wondering about whether the officers should have used deadly force against the fleeing (?) man, I thought I’d mention that the deadly force law was discussed recently on a radio show I was listening to. The case deciding when deadly force is allowed is Tennessee v. Garner (1985). In the case, the police had been dispatched to a home in Memphis when a neighbor called, saying he saw someone break into his neighbor’s home. The occupants were not home, and 2 officers went to the scene, one in front of the house and one behind. The one behind saw a man fleeing the home run across the back yard. The officer yelled at him to stop, and the suspect did not stop and tried to climb the back fence. The officer said in court that he could see the man’s hands as he grabbed the fence, and did not believe he was armed. He believed him to be about 18 years old. (He was 15.) Fearing the man would escape, the officer shot him in the back of the head, killing the suspect. Ten dollars, believed to be stolen, were found on the boy’s body. The father of the suspect sued, and the case went to the Supreme Court, where it was decided that use of deadly force fell under the 4th amendment (illegal search and seizure), and deadly force could only be used when the suspect was believed to be an immediate physical threat to either the officer or others. As this boy was known to be unarmed and was fleeing (not threatening anyone), the officer’s use of deadly force was illegal. The one dissenting opinion was Justice O’Conner, who said if deadly force is never an option when a suspect is not a threat, suspects have no reason not to run. Why not try?
I just found that interesting. You can make your own decision as to whether the man in the video is an immediate physical threat to anyone. It's hard to find a naked man jogging around all that threatening, but maybe that’s what his family thought before he killed them. Maybe they were laughing too hard to escape.
Sorry that wasn’t specifically dog-related, but related to the video. I also thought the dog looked like he was following directions. I wonder if it made a difference that the man was naked, therefore there was nothing for the dog to grab except skin? I think the dog is supposed to knock the suspect down and hold him, not seriously injure him. Maybe the officers thought the dog would likely seriously injure someone with no clothing. (And who knows what appendage he might grab?)
 

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https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/2136932001

This link might be the video. Or maybe someone more techie than me can link it. Looks like they send the dog and instead of biting he runs the other way.
Looks like the dog was given a command as the police were able to get him, they probably told the dog to move away so he didn't get in the way of pepper spray or the apprehension itself
 
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