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Discussion Starter #1
That post that blew up this morning got to me. The one about the guy planning on using an E-Collar on a puppy......

I know I was rude in my response and tried a do over - but he was gone and it didn't work...... My emotions got to me.

When I first started posting here - I had battle royale with the old timers about certain basic things - lol, and I still do on a (thankfully) less frequent basis.

We are passionate about our breed of choice - and they give so much to such a diversified cross section of people - there's bound to be conflict and outright aggression when there is a clear path to trouble ahead for the new owners. I know... I need to rein in a lot on some of my comments with the newbies. I always think of this AFTER I hit the post button because emotion and conviction kick it:eek:

I guess what I'm getting at - is I KNOW some of this stuff DOES need to get "sugar coated" if that's the only way it will help the pup or young GSD in trouble. We can have all the passion we want and stay true to our convictions - but I think communication is the biggie - the thing that we fail that puppy in need at sometimes....

I know "you can't save 'em all" - but I think we can save a few more..:)

Just interested in thoughts on this... Thanks!:)
 

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Personally I think it's all part of participating in forum activities. If ask a question, I'll get some far out outlandish responses from opposite ends of the opinion spectrum as well as balanced ones. All to be taken under advisement.
I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's all part of the experience

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 

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Since I was the one who called an old member out on "rudeness" I should comment. When I was new here, I was scared off by a few very rude posters, one of who, has since been banned for starting fights. It's not necessary and I've seen it happen a lot here. Yes, new people sometimes have weird ideas, but if we call them incompetent, they won't come back to find out why. It took me years to start posting. Then someone else said something extremely obnoxious and I decided I didn't need that, so I left again. I was offline for a while (I don't think anyone noticed but I did take a break.) We can be kind while explaining why no one should ever try an ecollar on a 9 week old puppy, even if we want to scream at them and tell them they shouldn't own a dog.
 

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I don't think sugar coating is right, but it is possible to get the point across with more tact. Having conviction doesn't mean being a jerk.

I can't tell you how many posts I write and then never send.

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it helpful?

Think every post through with those 3 things in mind, if any are answered with a "no" don't post.

I am not perfect. Emotions get the best of me as well. And I have regretted a post or 40. Learn from them. And do better, be better.
 

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Well Stone, I'm the one who first blew up, and there are some things I just won't apologize for. I honed in on the e-collar on the pup thing and I just lost it. And it wasn't his first post about doing this. He got so many suggestions and so much good advice on his earlier threads and it seemed to me he just wasn't getting it.

So many people in earlier threads advised him to lower his expectations of the pup, he has only had it two week for crying out loud. Everyone starts somewhere and we aren't born knowing things but some things are just common sense.

I just lost it, not gonna apologize for it though.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I don't think sugar coating is right, but it is possible to get the point across with more tact. Having conviction doesn't mean being a jerk.

I can't tell you how many posts I write and then never send.

Is it true? Is it kind? Is it helpful?

Think every post through with those 3 things in mind, if any are answered with a "no" don't post.

I am not perfect. Emotions get the best of me as well. And I have regretted a post or 40. Learn from them. And do better, be better.
That's pretty much what I'm thinking aboutGSDSAR. I've dumped about half my posts lately- because they were not going to be constructive....:(

Rosy - I think by our posts that pretty much 100% of us get livid about some of the posts and crazy ideas we see here from newbies.... BUT - Holding our "emotional mugs" and walking away or getting through it and trying not to shut the poster down is the only way we are going to help the GSD in their care.

Through the most insane posts - I think the respondants "get it" yet they remain non emotional and continue making suggestions because they know that's the only chance that help can get to that dog....???
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Honestly, for the sake of that pup, I hope someone is able to help him connect the dots.
Yea well - he kept reading the post for quite a while even though he shut down to participant communication. Most of them do. That's because they really want help but things went sideways.... Sometimes - with newbies - they come here out of ultimate frustration and are in their minds a little wounded and admitting defeat at which a few short days ago seemed a dream Disneyland with their pup. They're raw and frustrated. This guy - if you look at his first post and his last - you can see the transformation.

I'm not saying he didn't bring the comments on but just saying it's pretty typical for a newbie to be angry and very defensive when they first get here. WE are the ones that should see that and know that's whats going on and find a way to defray the situation in some way.... WE take the higher road or try to. I personally cannot take many of the newbies whinings when they don't listen to helpful advise but my only care really is about the puppy/dog. That's harsh but that's the way it is with me in my heart. :eek:
 

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I did read all his posts, and all the responses he got. All the good information that was given to him, and he came back and said he was gonna put an ecollar on his pup. I said what I said, then said I was done on that thread. The thing is, I'm sure that won't be his last thread.

I don't want to even call him a newbie, to me that just signifies and us versus them, and I don't mean that in a bad way towards you. We are all owners, I do not know everything. I have had many dogs, have made many mistakes, I'm sure I will make more so I do not hold myself as an expert in anything.

LOL! If ya think what I posted was bad, you should have seen what I deleted!
 

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I try to be nice to everyone,not always successfully though.Suggesting a newbie try this or that rather than demanding they do it keeps them from getting defensive.Usually:)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I did read all his posts, and all the responses he got. All the good information that was given to him, and he came back and said he was gonna put an ecollar on his pup. I said what I said, then said I was done on that thread. The thing is, I'm sure that won't be his last thread.

I don't want to even call him a newbie, to me that just signifies and us versus them, and I don't mean that in a bad way towards you. We are all owners, I do not know everything. I have had many dogs, have made many mistakes, I'm sure I will make more so I do not hold myself as an expert in anything.

LOL! If ya think what I posted was bad, you should have seen what I deleted!
I'm just curious Rosy - as I said, sad but true - I care more about the puppy/dog than the person and I consider the person something to work with to help the dog.

Is that your motivation too?
 

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Not really Stone, in my perfect world all owners and pups/dogs would achieve a wonderful relationship together. So while I am very concerned about the pup, I'm concerned about the owner too. I can only cringe when I think about all the problems he can create if he continues on this path.

If he were my child I'd knock some sense into him.
 

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I would think that new members coming here for help would have already read some of the posts that pertain to their problems before posting. It would give them an idea of the generalized mindset of this community.

There have been so many threads that I have read in the past 4+ years where one (one being generalized not specifically a single member) well respected member will get tough on something but very often another member or even the one who got tough will respond that it is only because they care deeply.

I think tact goes a long way but also speaking from a new to gsd world, sometimes the newbie needs to realize that a thick skin is often necessary in order to get past ones self so he/she can learn and help his/her dog.

I don't think I read the thread you are referring to but it must have been a difficult one.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I think we are talking about effective communication here for newbies. Both of you are newbies... lol I'm still a newbie compared to many here and I'm just coming to the point - after participating in hundreds of conversations that it's all about communication skills..... my core beliefs are very intact but the way I communicate has got to change to be more effective to different personality types.

The mods are free to post here as themselves, in in any topic they choose to participate in.... They try to set an example and are often first responders when someone posts with a problem. They tend to keep emotions out of the equation and for a good reason.

There are several reasons why people post to a site like this;

To help the OP

To help the dog

To show their experience

To debate

To reinforce their personal decisions

Which of these are not self serving when dealing with newbies?

It's all IMO and that means nothing - but just some food for thought.

I'm back full circle on this conversation and have nothing more to say. Thanks GSDSAR for your honesty. :)
 

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Rosy all of us have been too harsh with folks at some point.Some subjects just hit a nerve and off we go:)Stone is just saying we can't help the dog if we drive people away.
The ones that infuriate me are when I answer their question then they want to argue and get snarky.If you already know everything why did you ask?!! Arrhg!!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Absolutely right Dogma - Rosie!:hug: Not you... you haven't been here that long to get a "rep" yet lol - and this is a long term problem that we've all got going on and it was probably here long before any of us ever got here.

I just started this thread because I feel really bad for the puppy/dog when a post ends abruptly like this - and I saw not the best side of me in the mirror today - the motivations were good but I carped out on the communication end.

Whenever a post goes south like the one today... I go back and look at the various responses and see these posts that were only offering the best they could - from their experience - and I respect them for maintaining that control.


But in the midst of it - I think - why isn't someone calling this guy's bluff and telling him we know - he's not going to listen to us and is just going to continue to harm his puppy. But in the end, all we can do is to try to find the one or two little things that may "take" with them. There's no way they're going to say - you're right - I'm in over my head" "my ideas are wrong" now I have nothing and I'm a big ugly ignorant pet owner.

Shoot - I want to be able to sleep at night and the only way I can do that when there's a disturbing post here - is to have tried the best I could to get thru to the person to make a positive difference. Nothing else will do.

There's an old "cop out" phrase here that's a sure thread killer- you may have seen it used several times as justification....

YOU COME HERE ASKING FOR HELP AND THEN COMPLAIN WE ARE BEING RUDE - or SORRY BUT I DON"T SUGARCOAT - YOU ARE THE ONE BEING RUDE and bla bla bla - communication gone, gone, gone.
 

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There was a regular poster on this forum a couple of years ago (banned now) who bless his heart you could tell was burned out because his responses became the same to every thread. I can't quote him but in essence he said "if your dog is doing something wrong, or not doing something right, you gotta look at yourself and see where you failed and adjust". My words not his. But you know, he was right.

We are all human and we all fail at communication sometimes. Between ourselves and our dogs, and between each other.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Lol - absolutely! But you see from that old posters words.... just how much was he helping newbies at that point? not much but adopted a mantra....

It wasn't long ago - when I was having a problem with my pup that a trainer responded. I knew he was trying to be helpful but he was a pro and his specific method based training explainations were confusing me.

I finally said "could you please quit being so cryptic with your answers?" "I want to know what you're telling me"! And he did explain in more layman terms.:)
 
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