[JackandMattie]

It took three, THREE recalls to get him out. Dangit dang it dang it. I thought I had him under control

I guess the good news is that it only took three recalls. He didn't start it. The neighbor's little ankle biter started it, with another neighbors ankle biter that came into our yard and postured. Jack went in to finish it, tho dangit dang it, dang it!!

But gosh darnit!!!! Jack is the most poorly bred, temperamental GSD I have ever owned. Aloof, what ?!?!?!?

Thank goodness, we are less than a month away from our consultation with Al Longoria. Al and God, please help this dog.

I can't afford the liability I mean, I've assumed it and the neighbor's ankle biter has two punctures, which I'm paying for... But gosh darnit, darnit, darnit!!


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[onyx'girl]

I think my dog has a great recall and is trained well. Tonight we were out in the front yard training and the neighbors sheltie was going for a walk with his owner and toddler.
They stopped to chat and I kept the line on my dog, because you never know when the other dog will start teasing. My dog was indifferent because the sheltie was neutral as well...but if the sheltie would have started barking and circling his people(as he's known to do often, in herding mode) Karlo would have been turned on/prey drive kicking in.

So sorry Jack didn't call off, but dogs are dogs, and when they are being taunted, some just can't control their instincts.
Hope the ankle biter will be ok.

 

[JackandMattie]

Thank you! The punctured dog will be fine. The couple who brought him were especially understanding and sympathetic. It's just the permanent neighbors who are unforgiving. "You can never trust those dogs!" He said. I so thought we had proven that wrong!

Going to roll up the newspaper now, and correct myself.


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[gsdsar]

Not that it's ok, but the dogs came into YOUR yard? How are you financially responsible?

I am glad the other dog is okay, and that you are already getting help.


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[KZoppa]

yeah.... the dogs were doing this in your yard. Seems to me your dog was defending his property. I don't think can fault him for that. He didn't start it but he wanted it done with. Glad one neighbor is understanding. Too bad the other neighbor, who correct me if i'm wrong, is not so understanding of their dog trespassing on your property and starting fights with other dogs.

 

[JackandMattie]

Not that it's ok, but the dogs came into YOUR yard? How are you financially responsible?

I am glad the other dog is okay, and that you are already getting help.


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Thank you. I am financially responsible because my dog was off leash, my recall failed, and my dog got to the other one before I regained control... I understand it is my yard, but I also am already aware that there will be strange dogs roaming our unfenced subdivision all summer long, and a lot of them will be weekenders coming up from Houston to visit the lake (dogs we haven't met, and owners who are partying and not paying attention)... so I need to be more vigilant and manage my own dog better. I assumed that responsibility when I chose to move in there, and it was my failure for not having adequately proofed my own dog, even though I really thought I had. Proofed for squirrels, cats, passers by, passers by with leashed dogs, the existing neighbors' dogs (inlcuding Trixie the Pappilon, Flash the rat terrier, Gracie the Poopstarter in this scenario, and even Maggie the across the street neighbors' outta control Boston Terrier), rowdy kids on ATVs, the UPS man, you name it... just not dog fights, doh.

PLUS, my across-the-street neighbors who were hosting the trespasser went ballistic, and the husband is on the short list for having a stroke per his doctor, and I sure don't want to end up being the neighbor with the untrustworthy GSD who gave Bob a stroke! I'd much rather pay to clean up a couple of abscessed wounds if needed and continue to be the sweet, responsible neighbor with the GOOD dogs if that's still possible

 

[Shade]

Stuff happens, that's why we train train train and then train again. It doesn't mean it's foolproof unfortunately I'm glad the other dog is ok and honestly it is very nice of you to pay for the vet care. I probably would do the same just to avoid the stereotype of being a nasty neighbor

 

[JackandMattie]

yeah.... the dogs were doing this in your yard. Seems to me your dog was defending his property. I don't think can fault him for that. He didn't start it but he wanted it done with. Glad one neighbor is understanding. Too bad the other neighbor, who correct me if i'm wrong, is not so understanding of their dog trespassing on your property and starting fights with other dogs.

You understand correctly. The visiting couple who brought the dog and let it approach my yard were really okay about it all. It was my neighbors who they were visiting who went ballistic. I think the husband has anger management issues. I mean, he was screaming that he would shoot my dogs, etc. Honestly, I think it just scared them to death, and they reacted like a lot of people would.

And yes, I can't fault Jack for it. I was still upset when I posted, and though his breeding is questionable, it is my training and management failure that is the only thing to fault here.

Jack is now back on full-time management, until he can prove he is a good citizen. He has lost all privileges, which in hindsight I granted too easily and too early. He is either on a leash or kennelled (for meals) outdoors The only exception being fetch, and his ball drive is so crazy the odds of him breaking a fetch are slim to none, and it's not like we have dog fights every day after all.

And since he busted the glass out of a window pane the very next day after the fight, trying to get at two other strange dogs roaming around, he's back in the crate indoors when I'm not home. Also, I evaluated both of us over the weekend, and realized he's been getting away with being way too pushy with me, climbing up on my bed and me, stepping into my path, trying to push out the door ahead of me, etc. Professional help can't come soon enough!

 

[David Taggart]

Do you realise, that, in order to train him better you have to have pre-task situation rehersals?

 

[JackandMattie]

Do you realise, that, in order to train him better you have to have pre-task situation rehersals?

Nope...just relying on my own (lack of) experience and an arsenal of manuals. Tried residency training with him last year. Three weeks away while I was relocating for work. He was still a fearful rescue at that point, and wouldn't respond to anyone except me, so it was an epic fail and a waste of almost $2K.

Now that my work schedule is back to a 5-day, instead of a 7-day week, and I'm back home in Texas, I have tried to find someone local to teach me how to properly train him. But I'm in a small town in a rural area and can't find the expertise he needs nearby, so I'm scheduled for a consultation with a trainer in Houston whom several people in the forums have recommended, but the earliest he can meet us is May 30th.

It's clear I'm failing the dog, at this point. When I say proofed, I guess I'm speaking in layman's terms...meaning I probably don't have a complete understanding, beyond the fact that we have encountered such and such scenario multiple times and he has been either non-reactive or gave me his immediate attention and returned to me when called.

Admittedly, it's not that tough to keep this dog focused on me. His life revolves around me, and the ball, with the occasional flirt pole diversion. He really could give a hoot about anyone or anything else... except dog fights, obviously. Doh.

I can google it, or it may be farther into my books than I've gotten...but what is a pre-task situation rehearsal?

 

[David Taggart]

It's when everything repeats. One of my previous GSDs, his name was Damire, was like that. It is not very nice when your dog has scars on his face, but that is exactly what will appear if he doesn't turn his darn nose away. He never did. What helped us - when we found first bride...Then he turned selective, started to measure only his sizes. Fortunately, there weren't so many big dogs living around us. And he was all perfect on the training ground anywhere we went, no problem whatsoever.

 

[angryrainbow]

If you're here, then you are trying your best and certainly not failing.
I suggest putting him on a long line when you're out front and practicing with recalls as people / dogs wander by. That way he can't reach them. If hes strong, tie the long line to a tree near the house so when he hits the end of it you don't pull your arm out of the socket.. Hot Dogs are a favorite here when it comes to recall treats.

How have you been teaching his recall?

 

[JackandMattie]

It's when everything repeats. One of my previous GSDs, his name was Damire, was like that. It is not very nice when your dog has scars on his face, but that is exactly what will appear if he doesn't turn his darn nose away. He never did. What helped us - when we found first bride...Then he turned selective, started to measure only his sizes. Fortunately, there weren't so many big dogs living around us. And he was all perfect on the training ground anywhere we went, no problem whatsoever.

I'm sorry. I'm not sure I understand about the first bride?

 

[JackandMattie]

If you're here, then you are trying your best and certainly not failing.
I suggest putting him on a long line when you're out front and practicing with recalls as people / dogs wander by. That way he can't reach them. If hes strong, tie the long line to a tree near the house so when he hits the end of it you don't pull your arm out of the socket.. Hot Dogs are a favorite here when it comes to recall treats.

How have you been teaching his recall?

Affection. This dog is not food motivated. The girls are, but he will bypass a treat in favor of my attention. He will take a treat for a sit, etc., but it seems more to please me that he took it than to actually have it. LOL! He will accept a random treat from the neighbor, but then he almost always spits them out (milk bones and such, which I would rather he didn't eat anyway).

I have a few different varieties of training treats that the girls will go wild for, have even cut up and baked chicken hearts for him, since I'm a raw feeder...thinking that would be more motivating. He just could hardly care less.

Honestly, the recall is about the only thing I did feel solid on, and that's because he really doesn't want to be anywhere out of my sight. He was lying in the grass about 6' away from me when the scuffle started and he leapt up and joined in.

One simple "Jack" and he turns and heads my way, usually without fail. I have heard about the line, but never really needed one. But again, this is my velcro dog, and unless someone is playing ball / flirt pole with him, he is all eyes on me. That fight was just too much of a distraction!

Hmm...just thinking here. Maybe I Never had a good recall, just a codependent dog. Saying that about the ball / flirt pole is making me question. I need to get a long line and practice the recall with the ball as a distraction, maybe?!? Distraction and reward, maybe, since the ball game is the only thing I know of that higher value than my attention...is that even possible?

 

[angryrainbow]

A game that we did to proof recall around the ball is to have the dog on a leash and toss the ball just out of his reach, he'll go to get it, won't be able to get it, and will probably be scrambling towards it or eyeing it.. Say "Jack" or "come", whatever your recall word is, if you need to then reel him into you and praise when he comes back, ask him to sit and then drop the leash and release him to go get the ball.
He'll kinda learn that to go chase the ball, you need to tell him its ok, so he'll be looking to you and having his attention on you.

With Flirt pole I like having them in down/stay until I say its ok to get it.. Sometimes I'll leave my dogs in down stay and walk 100ft away and tell them ok, just to have them down about 50 ft away and tell them to stay again.

 

[JackandMattie]

A game that we did to proof recall around the ball is to have the dog on a leash and toss the ball just out of his reach, he'll go to get it, won't be able to get it, and will probably be scrambling towards it or eyeing it.. Say "Jack" or "come", whatever your recall word is, if you need to then reel him into you and praise when he comes back, ask him to sit and then drop the leash and release him to go get the ball.
He'll kinda learn that to go chase the ball, you need to tell him its ok, so he'll be looking to you and having his attention on you.

With Flirt pole I like having them in down/stay until I say its ok to get it.. Sometimes I'll leave my dogs in down stay and walk 100ft away and tell them ok, just to have them down about 50 ft away and tell them to stay again.

Thank you! I will try this

Also, I really appreciate you saying I haven't failed him. I know you're right, but its a feeling and it helps a lot to hear some encouragement ?


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[Blanketback]

I also think you're doing great, and definitely not failing Jack. I know it might seem like you should have better control, blah blah blah, but realistically these things do take time and when you're proofing something it's hard to manufacture the exact scenario you're looking for. Like random dogs fighting on your home turf, lol! It's not like you can just put an ad on craiglist looking for them. Or could you? Lol, jk!

The broken window sucks. I hope he didn't hurt himself with that one. I guess he was still pretty worked up from the fight. There's a member here, Longfisher, who gave me a lead on a trainer in Houston. This trainer sounded very intuitive, and he had years of experience working with GSDs. In case the one you're going to see doesn't work out, I thought I'd mention it. Good luck, and don't be so hard on yourself

ETA: I actually thought it was very good that Jack was able to recall from the fight. Usually, that's how people end up getting hurt, trying to pull the dogs apart. Good work!

 

[StephenV]

e-collar training can be helpful for off lead 'do or die' situations such as this. its a long lead - with a quarter mile range.

 

[justallen30]

I agree with e-collar training. My female Ava has done very well with it. She is always off leash on my property and she is usually in my shadow most of the time. But I have had dogs go by and she will do a few barks but I put her in a sit or down and she just watches them pass by. This is also worked on in obedience training with good socialization with a good amount of dogs. I payed only 200 for this training and we meet in a park every week. I think it was a great deal!

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[JackandMattie]

I also think you're doing great, and definitely not failing Jack. I know it might seem like you should have better control, blah blah blah, but realistically these things do take time and when you're proofing something it's hard to manufacture the exact scenario you're looking for. Like random dogs fighting on your home turf, lol! It's not like you can just put an ad on craiglist looking for them. Or could you? Lol, jk!

The broken window sucks. I hope he didn't hurt himself with that one. I guess he was still pretty worked up from the fight. There's a member here, Longfisher, who gave me a lead on a trainer in Houston. This trainer sounded very intuitive, and he had years of experience working with GSDs. In case the one you're going to see doesn't work out, I thought I'd mention it. Good luck, and don't be so hard on yourself

ETA: I actually thought it was very good that Jack was able to recall from the fight. Usually, that's how people end up getting hurt, trying to pull the dogs apart. Good work!

Thank you for the giggle! And the encouragement

And in retrospect, I actually am proud that he I was able to call him out of it. I think it helped a lot that the little dog turned tail when Jack jumped in, but it sure was a disaster averted, either way. He just needs work, but I know now that he's not a killer at heart. I'll get him where he needs to be.