[Catrinka]

Do I go back to where we started with no kibble just rice chicken pumpkin then transition back or just continue with where we left off?

I would if I were you. But it may just take a day or two on the 'diarrhea diet' before he's ready to have kibble added back in.

My last GSD, Ferg, was like Chewie with his sensitive belly. For him, it wasn't only food indiscretions but also any stressful situations that brought out diarrhea in him, so it may not only have been the bite of burger for Chewie.

I know it's frustrating, but it may improve over time for Chewie. With Ferg, it was like his intestines remained slightly inflamed for awhile even during non-diarrhea times. Once we'd gone for a long enough stretch of time without the runs (I'm talking months here), he eventually did better. I still had to be really careful with his diet, stress, and heat exposure to avoid diarrhea.

 

[LandosMommy]

If the loose stools continue, I’d have tested for EPI and SIBO. Wouldn’t hurt to check B12 levels at the same time.
If you can order Feedsentials, that would be the only supplement I would give. It has too much to list but the 4 different digestive enzymes would be great as well as all the other quality ingredients.

thank you I’ll look into it. Which supplement specifically? I saw a probiotic and digestive enzyme blend one called Sunday Sunday? Or the regular one? The ingredients look very interesting. Right now we are giving probiotic once a day (Fortiflora by Purina) and a digestive enzyme supplement (Wholistic digest all) with each meal. Will see how he does rest of today and tomorrow.

 

[Saphire]

thank you I’ll look into it. Which supplement specifically? I saw a probiotic and digestive enzyme blend one called Sunday Sunday? Or the regular one? The ingredients look very interesting. Right now we are giving probiotic once a day (Fortiflora by Purina) and a digestive enzyme supplement (Wholistic digest all) with each meal. Will see how he does rest of today and tomorrow.

The whole Feedsentials lineup is amazing. The Sunday sundae is a great pre and probiotic. The Feedsentials greens is the other I’d use.

Feed-Sentials - Products

feedsentials.com

If no answers and issue continues,think about trying raw food

 

[Cassidy's Mom]

SIBO is also a blood test - folate and cobalamin levels.

If the loose stools continue, I’d have tested for EPI and SIBO. Wouldn’t hurt to check B12 levels at the same time.

Cobalamin is B12.

 

[LandosMommy]

The whole Feedsentials lineup is amazing. The Sunday sundae is a great pre and probiotic. The Feedsentials greens is the other I’d use.

Feed-Sentials - Products

feedsentials.com

If no answers and issue continues,think about trying raw food

i actually want to transition him to a raw diet. At the end of may we are moving to a new house that will have space in the garage for a freezer for his raw food. My hope was to get his digestive system “stabilized” from now until then and then once settled in the new house, transition to raw. I already found a source (happy pet critter pet food) and investigated Titan raw blend mix. But I just didn’t want to make yet another change to his diet since he’s been having so many issues lately with diarrhea and even lost 2 lbs.

 

[LandosMommy]

I would if I were you. But it may just take a day or two on the 'diarrhea diet' before he's ready to have kibble added back in.

My last GSD, Ferg, was like Chewie with his sensitive belly. For him, it wasn't only food indiscretions but also any stressful situations that brought out diarrhea in him, so it may not only have been the bite of burger for Chewie.

I know it's frustrating, but it may improve over time for Chewie. With Ferg, it was like his intestines remained slightly inflamed for awhile even during non-diarrhea times. Once we'd gone for a long enough stretch of time without the runs (I'm talking months here), he eventually did better. I still had to be really careful with his diet, stress, and heat exposure to avoid diarrhea.

he isn’t a huge fan of changes in general (gets easily startled, is generally always aloof and suspicious of strangers and strange places but I feel this is typical for our breed) so I think that being at the bbq at a strangers house with strange people all day was stressful for him. Maybe between that and a bite of the hamburger set his bowels off.

 

[LandosMommy]

Saturday was bbq / "bite of hamburger" incident.
Started having diarrhea Sunday AM. Had diarrhea a few times Sunday (maybe 3 times) and then today (Monday) had another about 5 episodes. I am shocked so much diarrhea could result from this. I will give it a full 48 hours since it started before I start to worry. Have been feeding rice, chicken, and small amount of kibble with probiotic and digestive enzyme yesterday and today and also gave him THK perfect form but still all pudding or water consistency. His energy level is normal and he has a normal to larger than usual appetite.

I assume if all this diarrhea was from giardia or similar infection, it would be continuous and not respond to the diet changes? When he was eating just chicken, rice, kibble and the digestive supplements, he had perfect stools.

 

[LandosMommy]

Circling back for quick update I thought he was getting better because I took him out for last call before bed and no poops. He had eaten some rice and chicken with pumpkin and I sprinkled the digestive enzyme and some THK perfect form on top before I took him out. He woke me up from sleep to take him out urgently a few hours later and he had a very gassy diarrhea episode outside. I’ve decided I’m going to withhold breakfast and just call back the vet tomorrow. I have no idea what’s going on. He’s been doing this for the past few weeks at least but like this post is titled I really feel his entire life is just one episode of diarrhea after another. He has normal bowel movements for a brief period of time but never seems to be more than a week then has days to a week of bad diarrhea. Lately he has such bad urgency that I cannot work or go anywhere without arranging for somebody to be available to take him out every 2 hours to poop and I watch him on my pet video cam with anxiety noticing that he’s pacing by the door waiting for somebody to come take him out. At this point he’s had 7 episodes of diarrhea today and another 3 episodes yesterday , I have no idea if he really only had “just a bite” of a hamburger at a bbq but the volume of diarrhea he’s had I have no idea how that could be from one bite of food.

 

[Catrinka]

Is there any chance that Chewie ate something iffy besides the bite of burger? Wild animal poop on a walk maybe? My last boy Ferg that I'd mentioned in my earlier post had frequent diarrhea his first year of life. I was thrilled on the rare days/weeks where I could actually pick up a solid poo rather than trying to rinse liquid poop off the grass with the hose. It got better after his first year, though.

He'd had giardia, coccidia, and worms when we adopted him from a rescue at four months. Even after getting that fully cleared up, he was still prone to diarrhea from stress and certain foods. But bunny poop was the worst culprit. He loved it and it was hard for me to spot from a distance. He'd obey the leave it command once I saw him grab a mouthful, but the damage was done by then. My other dogs could do the same and suffer no ill effects, but Ferg's sensitive innards couldn't deal with it without meds from our vet every time. So just wondering if Chewie might have had an opportunity to snack on wild animal poop?

 

[ausdland]

Diarrhea | Natural Diarrhea Relief Remedy for Dogs Cats

Diarrhea Relief is an herbal formula that helps dogs and cats with symptoms of diarrhea. It is blended by a Master Herbalist using USDA certified organic herbs for the health of your animal. Enjoy more organic, whole food supplements and herbal remedies b

www.pethealthandnutritioncenter.com

I don't want to get into anything too long. You got some good advice here and some maybe not so good. Find a food your dog tolerates well and don't deviate from it for at least 6 months! My dog has had a very sensitive stomach for the last 2 years, probably because I screwed around with her diet and supplements too much. Everything has been ruled out other than IBD and I'm not going to have her endoscoped because she's doing great now thanks to the supplement I linked above and keeping her on a diet she tolerates. I would do the bland diet (overcooked white rice, boiled meat not chicken and the appropriate amount of calcium) for 2 weeks then slowly transition your dog to a grain free, novel (new to the dog) protein diet and stop giving him treats, probiotics, enzymes, etc. I can't overemphasize stopping the probiotics, enzymes. If anything, give him Tylosin for 4-5 days. I fed raw for 2 years, my dog doesn't tolerate it anymore. I like the cooked foods like NomNom, LuckyDog, Farmer'sDog. If that's too much, a novel protein, grain free kibble. g/l

 

[LandosMommy]

I have no idea what set him off tonight but I have gotten 0 sleep, we’ve gone out 6 times between 12 am and 4:30 am and everytime is just explosive watery diarrhea.

Dinner was rice, chicken, pumpkin with the honest kitchen perfect form sprinkled on top and the digestive enzymes. I give up. I’m desperate at this point. Waiting for the vet to open so I can call them for help. I don’t even know what to give to make it slow down.

 

[ausdland]

^ I just told you from experience. Good idea to go to the vet. Stop all the supplements and treats. If the vet suggests Metronidazole I'd ask about Tylosin instead. Get him off of chicken at least for 6 months. Your pup's GI tract is very inflamed. Been there. The supplement I linked is a natural anti inflammatory.
Also you can get OTC anti-diarrheal (Loperamide 2mg) tablets at the pharmacy. Won't hurt, will help.
Stop the pumpkin too. It causes soft stool in my dog.

 

[LandosMommy]

He ended up having diarrhea about 15 times last night. Then this morning vomited once and started retching with nothing come up a few times. He seemed a bit uncomfortable also like nauseous and stomach probably hurting. We came to the vet.

They examined him - no fever and abdomen exam feels normal. They did blood work (blood count, chemistry, and Texas GI panel to test for malabsorption and pancreatic insufficiency) and we gave a stool sample for testing. They confirmed his last stool sample 2 months ago was negative. They gave him a B12 shot after and a shot of medicine for GI upset to help with his symptoms now (Cerenia). Also gave us 5 days of Lomotil.

They prescribed a new diet (low fat high fiber) that we are going to start today. They said ok to mix this with chicken and rice. He said it’s a bit unusual diet but wants to try the low fat he feels he may be having malabsorption. The food is hills diet w/d multi benefit.

They are also giving a course of Flagyl.

Blood test results will be back in 5 days.

They commented on two other things - possibility of future prophylactic deworming if none of the above help and his tests are all negative since they said some parasites can be present and not detected in the stool. Last thing is they recommended no activity after eating meals because “he is very narrow and deep chested” and so high risk of bloat. I was already aware of bloat in GSDs so we don’t let him exercise or do anything strenuous after he eats.

They suggested possibly an X-ray to check for foreign body ingestion and obstruction but we decided to hold off for now because he’s not really acting like an obstruction and he has had fully formed poops here and there which would not really be possible with a true obstruction. Also we paid an arm and a leg for today’s work up.

Lastly decided to hold any other supplements except the Purina Fortiflora probiotic for now and see how things go.

Thanks everybody for your recommendations. I will post an update when we get the test results and how he does with the medicines and new diet. Hoping to finally get some answers and relief.

 

[Catrinka]

So sorry that you're going through this with Chewie. It's frustrating and exhausting I know. Hope they get to the bottom of it soon and that the treatment they've started him on will give him some relief and get you some sleep.

 

[LandosMommy]

So sorry that you're going through this with Chewie. It's frustrating and exhausting I know. Hope they get to the bottom of it soon and that the treatment they've started him on will give him some relief and get you some sleep.

Thank you and I appreciate everybody in this community and their advice.

Today was the first day after we went to the vet. He’s had a few meals now of plain white rice, boiled chicken breasts and the prescribed diet hills w/d. I was surprised but they told us to go cold turkey from Fromm LBP to the prescribed diet. He wanted to try him on a high fiber low fat diet. Is this what they usually do for SIBO? Vet seems to think he has SIBO. Waiting for blood test results. I wonder how long they will want him on this diet?? I will have to ask if this is a forever thing if he tolerates it or just temporary?

He tolerated the food. Ate it. No vomiting. Formed poops today. Activity normal. So that’s great. Will continue and see how this goes. My only concern is they gave us an 8.5 lb bag of this hills w/d that cost over $30. Normally we pay $50 for 33 lb of Fromm. So that’s not really great news. Also the new Rx food is only 255 cal per cup while Fromm is 384 cal per cup. So he has to eat more of it to keep up his caloric intake and gain weight. Double bad news.

I looked up the nutrition info for both and attached below the ingredients and nutritional facts. To me they have actually pretty similar fat %???? But the fiber is much higher on the Rx hills diet. There must be a cheaper diet that has similar breakdown??? The ingredients don’t even look good on hills w/d.


HILLS W/D

INGREDIENTS: Whole Grain Wheat, Powdered Cellulose, Chicken Meal, Whole Grain Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken Fat, Cracked Pearled Barley, Whole Grain Oats, Chicken Liver Flavor, Dried Beet Pulp, Pork Flavor, Lactic Acid, Soybean Oil, Caramel color, Flaxseed, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Glyceryl Monostearate, Potassium Citrate, Iodized Salt, L-Lysine, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), L-Tryptophan, Calcium Carbonate, DL-Methionine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Taurine, L-Carnitine, Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, Natural Flavors, Beta-Carotene.


3100 kcal/kg (255 kcal/cup†)

Nutrient Dry Matter%
Protein 20.7 %
Fat 13 %
Carbohydrate / NFE 45.2 %
Crude Fiber 16 %
Total Dietary Fiber 27.6 %
Soluble Fiber 1.9 %
Insoluble Fiber 25.5 %
Calcium 0.8 %
Phosphorus 0.66 %
Potassium 0.78 %
Sodium 0.27 %
Magnesium 0.099 %
Vitamin C 140 ppm
Vitamin E 682 IU/kg
Total Omega-3 FA 0.35 %
Total Omega-6 FA 3.02 %
Carnitine 515.8 ppm




FROMM

INGREDIENTS
Chicken, Chicken Meal, Chicken Broth, Oat Groats, Pearled Barley, Brown Rice, Potatoes, Menhaden Fish Meal, Dried Tomato Pomace, Chicken Fat, Dried Egg Product, Chicken Liver, Whole Oats, Flaxseed, Brewers Dried Yeast, Whole Barley, Cheese, Salmon Oil, Duck, Lamb, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Celery, Alfalfa Meal, Monosodium Phosphate, Salt, Potassium Chloride, DL-Methionine, Chicory Root Extract, Taurine, Calcium Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Chicken Cartilage, Vitamins, Minerals, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), L-Tryptophan, Sodium Selenite, Probiotics.


GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein 26%
Crude Fat 14%
Crude Fiber 5.5%
Moisture 10%
CALORIC CONTENT
3,625kcal/kg
1,648kcal/lb
384kcal/cup

 

[GSD07]

No one feeds Hills diet or whatever vets tell you to feed forever but it helps to stabilize his GI. If your dog has Sibo or chronic gastritis you may need to have him on low dose of Tylan long term. That’s what my vet suggested and I did with my dog when he developed chronic GI issues. Fortiflora and one capsule of Tylan and he never had diarrhea episodes ever since, and we fed different foods and proteins, and raw and traveled. Something to keep in mind.

 

[Cassidy's Mom]

When Keefer had SIBO he was on z/d, which has hydrolyzed proteins. We did not know if he also had food sensitivities, and this was easy on his system while his digestive tract healed. Yes, it was expensive, and yes, the ingredient list didn't thrill me, but it WORKED. And it was temporary, he was only on it a few months.

If he does have SIBO he needs at least 4 weeks of antibiotics, usually either Tylan (tylosin) or tetracyline. My vet prescribed the latter because he stocked it so we could start immediately, he would have had to order the Tylan. Flagyl is fine for short term, it's effective against parasites like giardia but I wouldn't use it long term. Keef's SIBO was not chronic, it resolved and never returned but some dogs do require life long treatment, as GSD07 mentions above.

 

[LandosMommy]

We are now about 1 week since he had gotten the severe diarrhea. Since then he is on Flagyl twice daily. His food is the hills w/d high fiber diet. He has nearly finished an 8 lb bag in 1 week due to a good appetite. He gets only kibble with sometimes chicken breast thrown in. No treats or other things to eat. No table food. 2 supplements - Purina Forti flora probiotic and Wholistic digest all (has probiotics, prebiotics, and digestive enzymes).

He has been doing great! All of his stools are firm and easy to pick up. He poops much more frequently now on the high fiber diet - 4-5x a day even if he only eats 2 meals but they are all firm + easy to pick up and he doesn't have any discomfort when having his bowel movement. My husband was concerned he is actually constipated now because sometimes he passes small round lumps but I disagree, if he's pooping 4-5 x a day and never straining, I'm ok with them being firm? Tomorrow we will call the vet to ask for his test results and buy more of this food.

 

[LandosMommy]

Still waiting on blood test results but stool was positive for Giardia.

 

[Catrinka]

Still waiting on blood test results but stool was positive for Giardia.

Hmm. He still has giardia? Or was that coccidia that he had when you first brought him home? Or maybe I'm confusing him with another puppy on here that had a rough time in the beginning.