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Discussion Starter #1
Adolescence has started! I'm starting to believe she wants to grow up and become a carpenter!

Her carpentering skills are mostly noticeable with the love of door trims, one in particular...

Anya has decided she has a new found love for a certain door trim in the house. And she is sneaky about it to. Waits until you turn around and takes a chunk out of it. She is crated when we leave the house and at night. When we are home she hangs out with us in our computer room with her toys. Different toys from squeaky toys, to bones and kongs rotating to keep her interested in them.

But a few days ago she chewed the corner of one of the door trims. She got a firm vocal correction which seemed to be enough. Afterwards fixed the door trim. Couple of days go by and no issues then I caught her again, sprayed vinegar it made her lick it till she got all the vinegar off. Got some Bitter Yuck. She adores that stuff :rolleyes:

I figured I would fix it with some Tabasco and cayenne...the moment I put it on there she started liking it again and following me to see if she could get some more :confused:

Hoping to get any ideas from you guys since we are at loss :help:
 

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My parents had a lab that LOVED bitter apple spray, cayenne, and hot sauce. We found out that he hated Listerine and garlic powder, both of course have a VERY strong smell. We used Listerine on everything he chewed; normally we had to reapply it once a day to make sure it was fresh. For the really hard places we used a small open bottle of garlic powder in front of the area, the smell alone was enough to keep him away. He’d sneeze like crazy if he go near to it and run away

If you can't find something that will deter her I would keep her on leash or crated at all times when unsupervised until she's old enough to stop. The longer she's allowed to do it the harder the habit will be to break
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for your reply Shade!

Listerine might be worth a shot! Garlic powder worries me as I can see her find a way to eat that too :p

The problem with her is that she can be an angel for days and all of the sudden she turns into that little devil.
I just can't figure out what it is with this trim. It's the same spot every time the other 4 doors she has access too she never even tries to touch.

I might have to refer back to being on a leash for a while or crate her as you are suggesting, though I like to keep that as a last resort as she still is crated at night and during the day when we go to work. Though as right now I am working a couple a days a week she gets to spend a lot more time out of it and here in the room with me. Our other dogs get to roam the house but she is definitely not trustworthy yet.

The first time she did it I figured it was access energy and upped her exercise by quite a bit. But I really can't find any rhyme or reason to it. It is so random.
 

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Puppies are puppies ;) Try just taking a bottle of Listerine if you have it or buying a small travel size bottle and having her sniff it, if she backs off then try it, if she doesn't then back to the old drawing board! Same thing with the garlic powder, just have her sniff it and see how she reacts

Otherwise barricade the areas off so she doesn't have access to the corners. Some dogs are just determined and there's only physically blocking them off from the temptation that works.

Edit: I encourage my puppies right from the start to follow me around the house at all times, I like having them within sight so I can see if they're starting to get into trouble. I take a shower late at night when the animals are crated or sleeping so I can take it in peace without heads poking in making sure the showerhead hasn't come alive and eaten me lol If they weren't with me I immediately looked to where they were, little troublemakers lol
 

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Discussion Starter #5
lol I love the puppy stages it has been quite a few years since we had a GSD puppy though! She keeps me busy and it's great and very rewarding when she has a her good days and we she parts of the girl she will grow up to be :)

In the worst case I might just restrict the area to moving the baby gate back from the hallway to the door to this room for a while and see if she will stop it. But first time to grab the Listerine :)
 

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The correct way to use bitter apple is to soak a cotton ball or paper towel in it and then put it in the puppys mouth and hold their mouths shut so they have to sit with it in their mouth for about a minute. If your dog really loves it then this wont bother him, in which case find something else.

You do this 2-3 days in a row 2-3 times a day and pretty soon just the smell of bitter apple on something will be enough to get the dog to steer clear.
 

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The correct way to use bitter apple is to soak a cotton ball or paper towel in it and then put it in the puppys mouth and hold their mouths shut so they have to sit with it in their mouth for about a minute. If your dog really loves it then this wont bother him, in which case find something else.

You do this 2-3 days in a row 2-3 times a day and pretty soon just the smell of bitter apple on something will be enough to get the dog to steer clear.
What?! That's disgusting and completely wrong! I seriously hope you're kidding :rolleyes:
 

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Completely serious, and don't act like what you're doing is so much better. Either way the dog has the taste in his mouth.

After he learns how much he hates the bitter apple spray the smell alone is enough to fix the issue and he doesn't have to taste it again.

This fixes issues on most dogs that will still go after things that have been sprayed with bitter apple as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Baillif I would think that it give issues with the fact that she might get trusting issues with me handling her mouth by forcefully holding something down in it.
Of course knowing her she just swallow it and ask for more as well :p


ps. Listerine can go on the "that taste really great" list too ;)
 

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Completely serious, and don't act like what you're doing is so much better. Either way the dog has the taste in his mouth.

After he learns how much he hates the bitter apple spray the smell alone is enough to fix the issue and he doesn't have to taste it again.

This fixes issues on most dogs that will still go after things that have been sprayed with bitter apple as well.

Hmmm and do you proactively wash your child’s mouth out with soap just so that they know the taste and therefore will be more aware of the consequences? Or deliberately stick your child’s fingers on a hot fireplace so they get burned, because otherwise they won't experience how painful a burn will be? Oh, and you must put a prong collar on your puppy and give it several good hard yanks just so the dog knows what the consequences feel like if they misbehave and pull on the leash

If the answer is no, then why not? Same thing, you're punishing the dog for NO reason. So yes what I do is better. The dog has no consequences unless they misbehave and chew and therefore get the taste in their mouth. If they do like it, then I find something else that they don't like.
 

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ps. Listerine can go on the "that taste really great" list too ;)
Dangit! Some dogs have no taste lol I think you're better off with blocking off those areas and keeping a eye on her to redirect her if she tries
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Shade I think you are right, it's quite funny she sees me walk with distilled vinegar and starts drooling in the hope she might get some...

Might just have to start collecting more baby gates lol, though so far so good have been watching her like a hawk today but she has been almost to perfect!
 

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Hmmm and do you proactively wash your child’s mouth out with soap just so that they know the taste and therefore will be more aware of the consequences? Or deliberately stick your child’s fingers on a hot fireplace so they get burned, because otherwise they won't experience how painful a burn will be? Oh, and you must put a prong collar on your puppy and give it several good hard yanks just so the dog knows what the consequences feel like if they misbehave and pull on the leash

If the answer is no, then why not? Same thing, you're punishing the dog for NO reason. So yes what I do is better. The dog has no consequences unless they misbehave and chew and therefore get the taste in their mouth. If they do like it, then I find something else that they don't like.


Your comparison to raising children pretty much tells all. It's not the same thing and frankly you're insulting your own intelligence by claiming otherwise. Equating it to burning someone on a stove is inflammatory and close minded. You going to compare me to Hitler next?

It isn't done to punish a specific behavior, it is done to create a desire to avoid what was before not really bothering the dog. It isn't the only method of course but I'm putting it out there because it works quickly and without consequences when done right.

It isn't done in an angry or punishing way. You just hold the puppy there and its done in a calm and matter of fact way.

My dogs that have had this treatment don't have any issues eating the house. They don't cower when they see me. They don't have trust issues with their mouths. Take that for what you will.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go back to beating my dog :rolleyes:
 

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Your comparison to raising children pretty much tells all. It's not the same thing and frankly you're insulting your own intelligence by claiming otherwise. Equating it to burning someone on a stove is inflammatory and close minded. You going to compare me to Hitler next?

It isn't done to punish a specific behavior, it is done to create a desire to avoid what was before not really bothering the dog. It isn't the only method of course but I'm putting it out there because it works quickly and without consequences when done right.

It isn't done in an angry or punishing way. You just hold the puppy there and its done in a calm and matter of fact way.

My dogs that have had this treatment don't have any issues eating the house. They don't cower when they see me. They don't have trust issues with their mouths. Take that for what you will.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go back to beating my dog :rolleyes:
You don't like the analogy of children? No problem. The point is, in your training method the animal doesn't understand why something is happening. So if you stick bitter apple in their mouth for no reason all they understand is that they have a horrible tasting thing being stuck in their mouth and they're not allowed to avoid it. Doing it multiple times simply continues the cycle and all they've learned is that you will do bad things to them when they've done nothing.

Dogs learn in a very simple way: punishment and reward. You're punishing your dog for doing nothing! So how do you reward? Good girl, you didn't bite me when I stuck something awful in your mouth and held it there? Pointless punishment is just that, pointless

It also doesn't matter the mannerism in which something is done, if I stand there with a hose spraying my dog in the face until it chokes it's ok because I'm calm and smiling while doing it? Heck no, it's still wrong regardless of whether it's done with malice or not.

PS My intelligence is just fine, otherwise I wouldn't have spent the time trying to explain to you the negative points of your way of training along with everyone else who might read this thread ;) I would have just said "hey stupid, you're wrong" and never bothered to elaborate. I wasn't sure if you were actually joking in the first post and was honestly hoping you were.

I'm done arguing with you, the OP has already rejected your suggestion and we're obviously not going to see eye to eye on the subject so I'm not going to bother wasting energy typing. You are of course welcome to train your dogs any way you want.

Go have fun with your dogs and I'll do the same with mine :)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
She is my 4th puppy over the years, they all have chewed up something which happens. It was part of them growing up. we corrected them and it was done. The others just had chosen objects that were slightly easier to replace :p (pair of flip-flops, a remote etc) Trims are just a slightly different story.

Anyways even this will eventually pass :)
None of them are destructive dogs at all they can be home for long periods of time and other then rearranging some blankets on the bed to make their dens they don't ever touch dishes, trash they know their limits.

@Baillif even though we all have a different way of training I do appreciate the time you took to answer to this. It just does not match the my personal believe of training.

I like a consequence to an action. It being reward or punishment. And I just can't see this dog not developing issues even if this was done gentle just for the fact she is an sensitive and shy puppy when we adopted her. I have no problem being firm with her but it has to have a direct reason so she can relate to it.

So I will keep hunting for something bad tasting!! Garlic powder makes her pounce and try to swallow the whole bottle lol. And in the meantime hide/avoid that trim :p
 

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That method is obviously not action consequence based. The owner was having issues with action and consequence methods because as soon as they weren't paying attention the dog was going after the trim. At some point the dog learned that it could get away with it if the owner wasn't looking. Other times a dog owner sees this is if the dog sleeps in the house and waits for the owner to sleep before raiding the trash can, but wouldn't do this if the owner was present.

If it was a matter of correcting the dog when it went after the trim when it did it a few times and was caught consistently and the dog understood and stopped there then that is one thing. If I could stop a dog there with that method I would and do. It's the cases where the dog is performing an action where the owner is not able to see it happening or purposely performing the action when it knows it isn't being caught that a method like I described is useful. On top of that normal bitter apple spraying of the object to stop the action itself wasn't working because the taste after the spray had been applied was not strong enough after having been allowed to dry to deter the dog.

The bitter apple thing isn't done throughout the life of the dog. It literally happens for 2-3 days and then you usually never have to do it ever again. There is no life long commitment to the method and similar methods to this aren't employed normally in training. It is a very specific method for a very specific case.
 

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The correct way to use bitter apple is to soak a cotton ball or paper towel in it and then put it in the puppys mouth and hold their mouths shut so they have to sit with it in their mouth for about a minute. If your dog really loves it then this wont bother him, in which case find something else.

You do this 2-3 days in a row 2-3 times a day and pretty soon just the smell of bitter apple on something will be enough to get the dog to steer clear.
It isn't done to punish a specific behavior, it is done to create a desire to avoid what was before not really bothering the dog.
Wow, what a terrible idea. If spraying bitter apple on the things your puppy chews is not sufficiently aversive, then find something else to try. There is no need to actually put it in your puppy's mouth and hold it shut.
 

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You're advocating finding something that tastes even worse or is more unpleasant.

Anyway use the advice or don't its a technique one of the best GSD trainers in the country uses. Don't like it? I don't care.
 

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watch her closely and crate her. take her to the area randomly,
point at it or touch it while looking at her and say "no" or "no biting"
or whatever terminology you want to use.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I was thinking that last night as well. Worth a shot.
It is not really as she is trying to hide. There are other door trims she could work on that actually would be out of my view. The one she chose is in plain sight when I turn around. Really the blame is on me as I got to involved what I was doing and not realizing what she was up to.

There are enough training methods used by "top" trainer I would mot touch with a 10 feet pole. I'm familiar with more then enough in the horse field i'm sure there are similar things in the dog world. Because a high end trainer uses it doesn't make it the right way...


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