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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

First off I would like to mention that I received my pup Ruckus from what I now realize was a backyard(ish) breeder. The family only had two litters with their GSD dogs...and are apparently now fixing the momma dog. So...Im obviously concerned about hip issues, etc. The sire was a czech GSD and the dam was a long haired GSD. I was told the hips of both parents were good, but was not shown paperwork (I now know this is not exactly a great sign).

Anyways, it is what it is and I love the dog to death, and she is an all around great pup. She does the occasional bunny hop and lazy puppy sit (but not all the time). She is quite active and is becoming more so daily.

I'm concerned because sometimes I can feel 'something' like a pop or click.when I put my hand on her rear end when she is moving...not all the time. Also, her bum wiggles when she walks...This does not concern me that much because she is a very akward growing pup. I mentioned the popping noise to the vet (who treats the police K9 here in Vancouver) and he stated that he was not worried and little clicks etc are normal at this age... He also manipulated her hips when he saw her last and said they seemed fine. I do notice that Ruckus' knee clicks and seems very loose...is it possible I am feeling this radiate up to her hips? If the hip is in fact popping occasionally, is this a true sign of HD...or could it just mean the joints are still forming? I see so many different things on the net and I have found this forum to be seemingly the most knowledgeable. Help! Im obsessing over this... Should I just bring her in for X-rays? :help: Sorry for the rambling...but this has built up for some time.
 

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I think you are lucky you have a vet that seems to have experience with the breed.

I'd calm for a bit and just make sure you are keeping your pup lean and fit, lots of good exercise for normal growth, and you may want to add some Esther-c as a supplement.

Ester-C: Miracle Cure for Hip Dysplasia???

Ester C for Dogs
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I think you are lucky you have a vet that seems to have experience with the breed.

I'd calm for a bit and just make sure you are keeping your pup lean and fit, lots of good exercise for normal growth, and you may want to add some Esther-c as a supplement.

Ester-C: Miracle Cure for Hip Dysplasia???

Ester C for Dogs
Thank you so much for the advice and the links. I have started her on glucosamine and have been giving her Vitamin C as well. We just got back from the beach and she was running around like a nut...so I dont think she is in any pain. She also jumps up on things and bolts down stairs (I try to stop her as much as I can). She needs to go in for her last round of shots soon. I imagine I should stop worrying...even if it is HD there are obviously several options to keep the pup happy.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi again,

So I had Ruckus X-rayed today. Definitely not OFA quality as she was not asleep. However according to the vet, the X ray and the ortolani test did not show any signs of hip dysplasia. I just want to make sure I'm not getting the run around here... I paid 350 for 3 xrays plus the exam and some Glyco Flex supplements. I will post the X rays below, please comment, criticize etc.

Also, I asked about giving her glucosamine and he said that it would not help as she is not arthritic. However the (expensive) joint supplement I was given also contains glucosamine as well as GlycOmega and DMG (N,N - Dimethylglycine) ...are the
two other active ingredients really adding that much benefit?

Please see x ray below:
 

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I cant say much except that they look a lot better than my dogs who does have HD. Im not an expert but the femoral heads look pretty smooth and are mostly covered in the socket. That's about as knowledgeable as I get LOL
 

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I'm not a vet.... and with a 4 month old it's early yet.

For me, I don't see any deformation really in the hip or ball joint. It does seem there's some laxity ( looseness?) in the joint, specially on the right (dogs left hip). But I also need to add that I REALLY am not used to looking at such a young dog's hip so that may be normal as they grow.

I would definitely keep the dog lean and FIT. Keep the muscles strong to take any pressure off the bones/joints. Plus the supplements.

Hopefully all the other hip experts will chime in.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I cant say much except that they look a lot better than my dogs who does have HD. Im not an expert but the femoral heads look pretty smooth and are mostly covered in the socket. That's about as knowledgeable as I get LOL
Thanks...makes me feel better anyway!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I'm not a vet.... and with a 4 month old it's early yet.

For me, I don't see any deformation really in the hip or ball joint. It does seem there's some laxity ( looseness?) in the joint, specially on the right (dogs left hip). But I also need to add that I REALLY am not used to looking at such a young dog's hip so that may be normal as they grow.

I would definitely keep the dog lean and FIT. Keep the muscles strong to take any pressure off the bones/joints. Plus the supplements.

Hopefully all the other hip experts will chime in.

Thanks MaggieRoseLee! Her left hip is definitely a bit looser than the right. You guys are awesome for responding so quickly. Takes a lot of stress off. :wild:. She just had a great weekend in Tofino, BC running up and down the beach and swimming.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I'm surprised your vet xrayed at 4 months. I had our 6 month old Jake in for an orthopedic exam a few weeks ago and our vet advised waiting until at least 18 months to X-ray for HD. It's too early to tell is what I have been told.

This was my understanding as well prior to getting the X-ray. That is why I was nervous that he even decided to take X-ray. Maybe he could just see that I was worried and wanted some piece of mind? I was told by him, that for the age she looks 'fine' and it is a good indication that she will be fine at 24 months. I was massaging the pups legs about an hour ago (we went camping this weekend...and lets just say Ruckus loves the beach...so she got a lot of exercise), when i was rubbing her legs she yelped and didn't look to happy with me. Could that just be a result of sore muscles? She seemed pretty pooped for most of the day today.
 

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Since PennHip xrays can be taken and read as young as 16 weeks, there is information in a young dogs x-ray Frequently Asked Questions

How Old Must My Dog be to Have a PennHIP Radiograph?


PennHIP has studied the efficacy of this method from the eight weeks up to three years of age. The PennHIP method can be reliably performed on a dog as young as 16 weeks old. Passive hip laxity at 16 weeks correlates highly with later hip laxity. In other words, a dog's hip laxity at 16 weeks will be much the same at one year, two years or even three years. The accuracy of laxity measurements for German Shepherd Dogs less than 16 weeks of age is not high enough to be of clinical use. Other breeds require study to determine the earliest reliable age of evaluation.

The looser the joint, as determined by the PennHIP method, the greater is the chance that the hip will develop DJD. (The standard hip-extended method can actually mask true hip joint laxity). There are obvious advantages to screening dogs for hip joint laxity at 4 months of age (or six months, 1 year, etc.) as opposed to waiting until 2 years of age. The reliability of the PennHIP method slightly improves with age, with one year 1 year being marginally superior to 6 months, which in turn is marginally better than 4 months. For all dogs, we recommend when possible, to use the mean (average) of repeated evaluations to get a more reliable estimate of a dog's hip laxity status (phenotype).
I was massaging the pups legs about an hour ago (we went camping this weekend...and lets just say Ruckus loves the beach...so she got a lot of exercise), when i was rubbing her legs she yelped and didn't look to happy with me. Could that just be a result of sore muscles? She seemed pretty pooped for most of the day today.
Dogs DEFINITELY can get stiff and sore. Plus our GSD's are also prone to pano the first year or so.

panosteitis in the german shepherd

Panosteitis in the GSD - Panosteitis and Your German Shepherd Dog
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I just quit going to a vet because of that money making hogwash. It was one of them holistic vets that made my life a living heck

Tell me about it. Im getting a bit frustrated, I feel the vet is blowing off concerns, but then does not blink in recommending $350.00 X-rays and supplements which are $40 dollars (the second ingredient being glucosamine)...however when I asked if I should be giving ruckus glucosamine purchased at the pharmacy for much less he says it is not needed. Unless the other two ingredients in the supplement are really that significant??
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Since PennHip xrays can be taken and read as young as 16 weeks, there is information in a young dogs x-ray Frequently Asked Questions





Dogs DEFINITELY can get stiff and sore. Plus our GSD's are also prone to pano the first year or so.

panosteitis in the german shepherd

Panosteitis in the GSD - Panosteitis and Your German Shepherd Dog

Thanks MaggieRoseLee. I just notice Ruckus seems stiff today. When I put my hand on her rear end when she walks I definitely feel some sort of clunk or click...I don't know how one would describe it. Coincidentally, we are going to the vet today for the remainder of her shots. I will mention it to him...again...and give you guys an update!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks MaggieRoseLee. I just notice Ruckus seems stiff today. When I put my hand on her rear end when she walks I definitely feel some sort of clunk or click...I don't know how one would describe it. Coincidentally, we are going to the vet today for the remainder of her shots. I will mention it to him...again...and give you guys an update!

Again, the vet does not seem concerned. He said she is on the lean side which is good...he mentioned it is unlikely she has dysplasia and any awkwardness at this point can most likely be attributed to growth. However, he seems to dodge the clicking clunking issue by saying that is not the only indicator of HD and many dogs without it have had clicking, popping, etc...can anyone here confirm this? IE a dog with OFA good who had clicking popping joints when younger?
 

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I'm not a vet.... and with a 4 month old it's early yet.

For me, I don't see any deformation really in the hip or ball joint. It does seem there's some laxity ( looseness?) in the joint, specially on the right (dogs left hip). But I also need to add that I REALLY am not used to looking at such a young dog's hip so that may be normal as they grow.

I would definitely keep the dog lean and FIT. Keep the muscles strong to take any pressure off the bones/joints. Plus the supplements.

Hopefully all the other hip experts will chime in.

Well..Ruckus is 6 months old today. The popping in her hip had not subsided so I had the vet look at her. The expression on his face says it all. Although we did not do any further x-rays...the popping has concerned him to the point that he is recommending the TPO surgery, which Im hoping her insurance will cover. I'm mad, but was kind of expecting the news. I just wanted to know if anyone here has any input or feedback regarding this type of surgery? Is it worth it? I just want her to be a happy dog, and need her for hiking and camping etc so the 'wait and see' approach is pretty much out of the question for me. Should I get a second opinion...I mean the popping is very obviously coming from her hips...at some points you can see it. The vet is surprised though, because her Xrays didn't really merit that type of symptom....not really sure what Im looking for here...I just found out and am a bit taken aback.
 
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