German Shepherds Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,988 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
... and not a single dog picked it up.

Would you expect a live find dog to make that find, re-find and indication on a four day dead old body when the temperatures have been in their sixties?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,483 Posts
No....maybe if the perdon was only dead a few hours.....
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,988 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks, that is what I was thinking too. I can't wrap it around my mind, why on earth a live find dog is expected to do Cadaver dog work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,389 Posts
A dog trained to find a live person, is not going to find a dead one. Is that what they were expecting?

My Malinois would absolutely have found it. She can find a dead "anything" in a 12 acre park. Then she rolls in it!

She knows when there's a stray baseball hiding in the overgrown areas of the park.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,451 Posts
OK I don't do SAR but the thread title intrigued me. Four days dead, temps in their 60s, 50 feet away, heck I would expect all the *people* to find it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
825 Posts
A dog trained to find a live person, is not going to find a dead one. Is that what they were expecting?

My Malinois would absolutely have found it. She can find a dead "anything" in a 12 acre park. Then she rolls in it!

She knows when there's a stray baseball hiding in the overgrown areas of the park.
Other than the Mal part, thats my Abbie. Any time I see her rolling in the grass I know there is something dead there... A few days ago it was a tiny lizard. :sick:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
Pardon me for being dumb...but this was a real dead body and not a training exercise correct? If it was four days old, wouldn't the people smell the body by then? Or was it that the body had just been placed there but had been dead four days?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,219 Posts
My Abby rolls in imaginary spots by the dozens. At least that's what I call them because I can't see or smell anything. Maybe it's just good to be old.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,483 Posts
Not necessarily - it depends. Scent does strange things depending on the conditions when they were out there. What I would expect to see is some subtle change of behavior in the dogs even if they were not trained for it. But if the person was 4 days gone , you would hope they were thinking finding a body was a real possibility.

Was the victim gone for 4 days or actually dead for 4 days? That would make a difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,980 Posts
Well, I would certainly expect the dogs demeanor to have alerted the handlers. However, I cannot tell you how many folks cannot read their own dogs. They get locked into expecting a certain behavior and that is it. Holy Cow, I had a Malinois save me several years ago from stepping right in the middle of 6 and 1/2 feet of coiled up mad,water moccassin. The dog was a narc dog. He started barking hysterically while looking me in the eye. I followed his gaze and there it was.

As far as folks smelling it themselves,it depends on the exact temp. Anything below 50 makes bacteria unhappy and greatly affects the decomposition process.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,616 Posts
We had a recent case here in Maryland with a missing person, presumed dead for about 1 week. They used both live find and cadaver dogs in the search. The dog that found the body was a live find dog. Dog did not indicated but the handler knows her dog very well and saw from the change in the dogs behaviour that it had found something.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,483 Posts
We had a recent case here in Maryland with a missing person, presumed dead for about 1 week. They used both live find and cadaver dogs in the search. The dog that found the body was a live find dog. Dog did not indicated but the handler knows her dog very well and saw from the change in the dogs behaviour that it had found something.
We have seen that on several searches with deceased victims (live find dog change of behavior). It took me several years of dog training to get to where I could read the body language; it is an art and I have seen folks far more perceptive than I. I still would not expect a live find dog to do the trained indication as Mrs K said was a "requirement" or expectation.

Given the limited exposure of most cadaver dogs (including nationally certified) to whole bodies dead for a short time, I can't say I would guarantee that a certified cadaver dog would give its trained indication in that scenario but the handler sould darned well notice it. What I would expect to see is a dog overwhelmed by scent and working the pool of scent, but possibly not pinpointing. Renee has mentioned dogs giving trained responses on the fringe. I have not had that issue but I have seen the dog have to really work to pinpoint a large source -

We had a search a few years ago were cadaver dogs (not ours) worked right pass a recently deceased victim and nobody picked up on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,980 Posts
We had a search a few years ago were cadaver dogs (not ours) worked right pass a recently deceased victim and nobody picked up on it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yep. I have also seen narc dogs pass by a trailer full of dope. Thresholds. We narc dog handlers learned about that years ago.
I am repeating myself but I could not even count the number of dogs that have attended my seminars and "fringed" on land AND water when presented with a realistic amount of HR. Or walked right by it. Thresholds are every bit as important as a diversity of ages of HR
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top