German Shepherds Forum banner

1 - 20 of 69 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I don't normally post here... but seeing as not everyone in the world follows me or the von der Sauk FB page... I want to give a warning of caution.... my storie follows below...

So... my loving husband, loving mother, caring neighbor and I are all pretty freaked out from our recent terrify events.

Monte bloated on a Saturday evening. We caught it. We saved him. He's without a spleen and lost many vessels to his stomach but is now making so far a good recovery. He has weeks to go.

10 days later (Sept 20, 2011) my best show female V3 Kally von der Piste Trophe SCHH2 is found dead in the kennel. Kally wasn't someone that loved other female dogs so she wasn't part of our house or garage crew but was with access to our back yard where she got her attention daily.

Monte is a dog that has more stress in his life, he is male, 8.5 years old and in general makes a better 'bloat' canidate.

Kally... found... and we can say with all honesty finding her how we did and with circumstances bloated. She was NOT a stressful dog, nevous, thin, fed at an elevated level, over fed, under fed, excercised before or after eating. She was 7 years old and has NONE of the predispositions for bloat out side of being a German Shepherd dog (aka a deep chested dog).

Having had shepherds for over the last 12 years of my life. And at times having over 20 ADULTS on site, and many times with youngsters having had over 50+ GSDs as well as other large breed dogs on site (rescues and boarding/training clients) I've never experienced BLOAT first hand in my home.

Not only is this driving me mentally crazy, wondering why me, and what did I do, and how come... there is no reason... no logical reason.

So I've started looking with my husband, mother and neighbor all of which are very active in the kennel program. Together we've started becoming concerned because of the ONLY change that was made in the kennel in the last WEEKS!

So... with that being said... what changed?

For a long time we fed Royal Canin GSD Adult and Puppy. (RCGS and RCGSP)
For a long time we also fed Diamond Naturals Chicken and Rice. (DNCR)
For a long time we fed Taste of the Wild. (TOTW)
For a long time we fed RAW.

No issues ever presented with these foods.

A few weeks ago (6-8?) we started looking at quality foods but for a lower price. All the young dogs get DNCR only. They do great on it. Never gassy etc. My husbands feeds them (approx 16 young adults).

At the boarding kennel we have some dogs my mother feeds... they get DNCR, RAW, or RCGS... never any issues. 8-18 depending on the boarding kennel....

At the house we feed our puppies (3 10x10's in quarantine)... RAW... then as they get older (8+ weeks) RAW and RCGSP mix..... Then I look after feeding our sport dogs and a lot of the mothers, or expecting mothers, or hard to keep weight on dogs and a few older pups (6-7 months and under)... Until a few weeks ago everyone at the house with the exceptiom of BRONGO, FARIN, MONTE, BUFFY, got a mixture of DNCR, TOTW and RAW.
It wasn't until I moved the TOTW out of the picture when I added in the 4HEALTH...
I slowly worked DNCR almost out of the picture so it was 4HEALTH and RAW.

Monte, Farin, Buffy ate only the NEW food and have for the last weeks... I was trying it out... 35lb bag for like $30 great deal... great ingredients etc... They ate approx 3 cups a day.

Brongo ate TOTW or RCGS


So... what happened... 4HEALTH came into the picture... a consistent diet... they loved the food. MONTE bloats... having had 2 cups 4HEALTH that night and in 30 minutes is already on the way to getting emergency care.

10 days later I fed Kally in the morning only that day 1/2lb raw and 2 cups 4HEALTH.

She didn't have supper that night.

I found her dead in the morning.


THE ONLY change on our place was 4HEALTH....


So... we did some tests.

RCGS floating in a lot of water. Takes 2-3 times longer to absorb it then DNCR and 4HEALTH.

TOTW Absorbs it all but doesn't get overly big. As RCGS absorbs the food it stays fair firm and only gets about twice the size as the kibble it was. Taste of the Wild does the same. But gets mushy more easily as it is smaller kibble.

The digestion rate of RCGS is great!

DNCR gets about twice the size... but doesn't get real foamy or sponge like. And it takes longer...

But 4HEALTH... WOW... 1 cup of kibble almost filled our bowl in the test... and FAST compared to the others. Within a short time I had to add MORE water to it... and then MORE again! It got HUGE! Some pieces went 4-5 times the size of the other pieces...

I've immediately removed ALL my puppies from ALL 4 HEALTH products. We've finished up a bag with some younger dogs (less prone to bloat)...

So... I think I need to let people know... take it or leave it...
If I had to make a bet... I know what killed my dog... and what almost killed my dog.

Soak your dogs food and see what it does... buy smaller bags of foods before you get a big one... do a test... you can always donate it to a shelter or rescue who can feed smaller breed dogs not prone for issues.

Now, we have DNCR and RCGS and RCGSP and Raw here...

4Health looked great....... but it can take a hike... not in my kennel it does NOT belong!
KallyRIP.jpg
DSC_0765.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,213 Posts
This is so disturbing and very sad to read. My sympathy to you. I am glad I feed raw and not kibble, I hope this warning is heeded & spread.
So sorry for the loss of your Kally, and hope that Monte makes a smooth recovery.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,005 Posts
I'm so sorry for your loss.
Were you able to do a necropsy on your female?

Also, I have a question, isn't raw supposed to be fed in a separate meal from kibble (if you're going to do both). I've always heard that but only fed raw once, when I did, it was in the AM and kibble PM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,168 Posts
Wow... that is terrifying... I am so sorry for your loss and your struggles.

Kibble terrifies me because of how it expands in the stomach... I am so paranoid about bloat. At least raw doesn't expand, and digests quickly in a carnivore's stomach.

So sorry for your loss.. Thank you for sharing this.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,306 Posts
I totally agree with Onyx! Very tragic, but at least one baby is safe! :( Fingers crossed for a smooth recovery!

Though RAW doesn't prevent bloating either, a dog can bloat on ANYTHING. One member here had a dog bloat after drinking too much water while doing tracking. Sadly, it's just something we are forced to live with when we own dogs, especially deep chested/bloat prone breeds.

I do however feel that this is a good post regardless. Many people don't consider how much the food they feed swells and to get 4-5x bigger than it's original size is shocking. Especially when members come along saying they feed 2-4 cups of food in ONE sitting!!! Imagine how much food is then expanded into their stomachs!! O_O
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,306 Posts
I'm so sorry for your loss.
Were you able to do a necropsy on your female?

Also, I have a question, isn't raw supposed to be fed in a separate meal from kibble (if you're going to do both). I've always heard that but only fed raw once, when I did, it was in the AM and kibble PM.
I've never had issues feeding raw and kibble together nor has anyone in my family.

I think bloating is just one of those things that if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. Despite the warnings of don't do this or don't do that, nobody truly knows how to prevent bloating, only how to take a couple of precautions to hopefully prevent it. :/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
So sorry for your loss. We feed royal canin and just the other day some left over bits fell in the water bowl and I was shocked to see how much bigger it got.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts
I'm so sorry for your loss. And I hope Monte has a speedy recovery. I've never been faced with bloat so far, and hopefully I never will. Your "experiment" is interesting. Have you contacted the company to get their take on it?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thanks all... the goal is to just get as many informed... Monte is on Raw only now... but I know even that isn't a fool proof method... but from research it certainly seems to help...

Please share with friends and family my experience with 4Health I'd hate to read this about another dog and find they also ate the same thing...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,157 Posts
Sorry for your loss and almost loss. My dogs love 4health and are restricted on water intake before and after meals for at least an hour before and after as well as activity. I'm sticking with what works for my dogs and our budget. Only other choice would be going back to purina and thats not happening.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Kzoppa... I am not inexperienced with dogs by any means... what I write has reason... and is to make sure people are aware, so IF it happens to their dog, they maybe have a better understanding of what went on when none of the other reasons are the reason for bloat... I've never had an issue not until 4Health Came into my kennel. I am sure thousands feed it, and maybe 1000 will never have a problem. I hope you never do.

My male that bloated was not drinking extensively. He did not drink much before as his water bucket was 3/4 full, and had not over exerted himself, or was overly excited, nervous etc... he did not drink to my knowledge 1-3/4hour prior to feeding and did not drink at all after the feeding. He bloated LESS then 3/4 of an hour from eating... Kally barely drank a gallon a day, I'd refresh her water daily and less then 1/8 would be gone (in a 5gallon bucket)!
Her food did not have excessive water in it, only what was used to aid in the mixture of the raw so less then 1/3 a cup.
For me it also worked in my budget, but a $3000 bloat bill my dog loosing his spleen and 3/4 of the blood vessels to his stomach and another dog dead is all to me much more out of budget. When it works for you then feed it... but I know it worked for me until this happened.

Just a price thing for you...
Diamond Naturals Chicken and Rice doesn't do what 4health does and at Tractor Supply it is like $28 for a 40lb bag. Which is less expensive then 4Health. My dogs have beautiful coats that eat that, and great stools. And not excessive stools.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
770 Posts
I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to post this here. Thank you very much, and I will share. That's shocking.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,141 Posts
Sorry for the loss of your female - glad Monte made it!

The info is much appreciated too! I am pretty skeptical about changing foods, and have rarely done so....I will be sure to note that this is NOT a good food - why take a chance???

Lee
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,649 Posts
I am very sorry for your loss. What a terrible shock. I hope your surviving dog has a smooth recovery.

I do want to say that there are many people who avoid Diamond products at all cost because their food safety record is not good. There are quite a few people around here whose dogs suffered liver failure and died from contaminated Diamond food in 2006.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,475 Posts
It has been many years since I fed kibble, so I can't comment on the food itself - I can only offer you my sincere condolences on losing Kally, a very lovely girl, I've seen photos of her on your website. How dreadful for her to pass in that manner. May she rest in peace.....and may Monte continue to thrive. :hugs:
____________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,360 Posts
Wow, that's some scary stuff. Thanks for sharing. I'm so sorry about your dogs :( What a terrible mess to go through ...

I feed my dogs Diamond Naturals, and they are doing great. Im glad to hear it did better in your test.
 
1 - 20 of 69 Posts
Top