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Discussion Starter #1
Well, I brought home my long haired German Shepherd at exactly eight weeks. The problem is that he is very very small. He is now 11 weeks and only weighs 10lbs. Here is the backstory:

The mom stopped producing milk when the pups were only two weeks. The breeder was not able to get the pups to take milk replacement. So the pups had to be started on boiled chicken. Eventually the pups were switched to canned food and kibble mix then finally to straight kibble. The mom dog was removed and a nanny dog used so the dogs would take to eating. The nanny socialized and took care of the pups. All the puppies in the 9 pup litter were very small at the eight week point.

Well, my little guy isn’t the most voracious eater. We use boiled chicken broth to help stimulate appetite. But he is so small for his age. His stomach is also really sensitive. He’s been on antibiotics. He seems like he is getting better and stronger and he is the coolest, smartest puppy ever!!

My question here is, will he reach his potential size? Dad is 80lbs and mom 75. They are incredible GSD. I really want my pup to grow to his full size. Mostly I want a happy healthy dog. But I do wonder if his very small size is going to be impactful long term....
 

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Your pup has a predetermined genetic ceiling. He'll reach it with proper nutrition and exercise. His lack of moms milk may or may not slow that down or outright stunt it. Only time will tell now. Judge him based on character and ability and forget about his size.
 

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I don't think your pup is 11 weeks old.
Lots of people thought my pup was at least 2wks younger just because she was under standard

My pup started off small. At 5mos, she's finally at standard for her age

Some pups start small and grow slowly and consistently. Some are slow and have some big growth spurts later. Some grow fast right out the gate and hit max height early

As long as your pup looks proportional in regards to size and weight, then there's no problem
 

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I got a pup that was the runt of the litter of 9. She weighed only 8.5 oz. while the largest male in the litter weighed in at 22! By the time she was 8 weeks old, and ready to go home with me, she had already caught up in weight to her two sisters. Only extremely poor nutrition can stunt growth, which, as has been said above, is genetically determined. Give your pup time, he will catch up.
 

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My gal was the smallest of her littler of 11. Now at two years old she is on the smaller side of the breed standard, but quick and more agile than my much larger male.

It is not unusual for even "normal" GSD pups to have periods of being finicky eaters, and the antibiotics don't help that at all. There are other threads here on ideas to help your pup eat better.

He looks charming!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I’ll look into ways to help him eat better. I originally had him take Albon for parasites at the breeders recommendations. Then we had him on a probiotic. He’s had very consistent diarrhea almost the whole time I’ve had him. So now he is on the antibiotic. He started out on diomand large puppy because that’s what the breeder was feeding but he wasn’t really eating that very well. So I had to kind of abruptly switch his good because he wasn’t really eating at all. Now he is on wellness large breed puppy. He eats this a lot better. But he is just so thin. Then some days he eats Great and looks healthier. Some days he wanes and looks thin. Hoping this round of antibiotics will get his belly on track.
 

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Hi Miz and WELCOME! :greet:

Really cute pup! Love those coaties!

Rough start for a pup!
Your pup needs good nutrition now. What brand name kibble are you feeding? What brand name treats?

Also it will be VERY important to get him on a high quality Probiotic because of the antibiotics he's been on. Antibiotic's kill the "good" bacteria in the gut.
Over 75% of the immune system lies in the gut so it is VERY important to keep it healthy. A Digestive Enzyme (to help him assimilate his food) is also important.

Here are some High Quality/Human Grade ingredient products made for dogs:
Sunday Sundae: NEW WEBSITE COMING SOON ? Working German Shepherds (click on “Contact” and use email to order)
Gut Sense : http://dr-dobias-natural-healing-usa...ducts/gutsense
Digest All Plus:
https://www.thewholisticpet.com/wholistic-digest-all-plustm.html
Animal Essentials: Plant Enzyme w/ Probiotics 3.5 oz 100 gm - Animal Essentials


A nutritious "Bone Broth" would give more nutrition than chicken or beef broth. You can purchase this or make your own.
The Honest Kitchen (100% human grade ingredients): https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/turkey-bone-broth
The "turkey" contains “ginger” for added digestion and or stomach problems

An additional item from The Honest Kitchen that you may want to consider is
their "Golden Milk: “Full of antioxidants, this formula will boost your pet's immune system and support overall health & well being.”
THK site: https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/golden-milk
To purchase: https://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Honest-Kitchen-Golden-Milk-Organic-Coconut-Milk/200109.aspx


Another thing to consider is Colostrum:
Quality is key:
"Only whole, intact colostrum contains the lipids that nature designed for colostrum. Defatted colostrum does not. If you think nature knows what it is doing and that colostrum should remain whole, intact, and pure, be sure that the colostrum you buy has not been defatted and that nothing has been added to it or taken away from it.
*Synertek colostrum is taken only from mature cows and not from the first lactation. This ensures that both the cows and the colostrum are immunologically mature. Each batch of colostrum is tested both by an in-house lab and an independent lab for organic quality and to be certain it meets the parameters of six hour colostrum, and only then is it certified.
*Synertek colostrum is harvested from U.S. Midwestern family farms, carefully chosen for overall quality, with appropriate regard for the health and welfare of the cows and calves, organic practices, and grass feeding.
Synertek Certified 1st Six Hour Colostrum
Dr. Andrew Jones dosage recommendations: The colostrum dose for dogs varies based on the company; I advise giving ¼ of the human dose per 20lbs daily.



I also agree with the others......enjoy this little bundle of joy and don't worry about "size".

Moms :)
 

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Just saw you are feeding Wellness.

You may want to consider a higher quality food like Fromm's, or IF you can afford it, The Honest Kitchen Love Dehydrated food.
FROMM’S: http://frommfamily.com/products/gold/dog/dry/#heartland-gold-large-breed-puppy Store Locator: http://frommfamily.com/retailers/usa/#progress=2 This is Family Owned, Family Run, & Family Manufactured. Most pet food companies are not.
*Fromm Family Foods is a fifth-generation family-owned and operated artisan pet food company.
*Produced with a commitment to quality and consistency at Fromm's hands-on facility in Wisconsin. High-nutrient digestibility and utilization offers complete and balanced nutrition.
*Third-party pathogenic bacteria testing is practiced on all production batches to ensure safety.



The Honest Kitchen Dehydrated Food(not kibble): LOVE: https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/love Store Locator: Where to Buy Honest Kitchen - Honest Kitchen Stores | The Honest Kitchen A 10# box RE-hydrates to about 35 pounds of food, but you feed more than kibble because it is real food.



What treats are you feeding?
 

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My dog was coming from a litter of 12. At some point I, too, got worried about his size and even posted here (2 years ago). He was ok at 8 weeks but then went for 3 weeks with no change in size. Suprisingly, he did catch up and grew up so much that he ended up being taller than his parents.
Now, at 2 years of age and he is 27.5 inch high and 82 pounds heavy.
Invest money in good diet and you help your pup to grow to her full potential. As i could see from my experience, even looking at the parents does not always help.
 

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Lots of people thought my pup was at least 2wks younger just because she was under standard

My pup started off small. At 5mos, she's finally at standard for her age

Some pups start small and grow slowly and consistently. Some are slow and have some big growth spurts later. Some grow fast right out the gate and hit max height early

As long as your pup looks proportional in regards to size and weight, then there's no problem
I wasn't just looking at size. That puppy doesn't look 11 weeks old.
 

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I’ll look into ways to help him eat better. I originally had him take Albon for parasites at the breeders recommendations. Then we had him on a probiotic. He’s had very consistent diarrhea almost the whole time I’ve had him. So now he is on the antibiotic. He started out on diomand large puppy because that’s what the breeder was feeding but he wasn’t really eating that very well. So I had to kind of abruptly switch his good because he wasn’t really eating at all. Now he is on wellness large breed puppy. He eats this a lot better. But he is just so thin. Then some days he eats Great and looks healthier. Some days he wanes and looks thin. Hoping this round of antibiotics will get his belly on track.
You have a Rx for Albon, so I assume you went to a vet. Why did vet put him on Albon?

My pup had giardia and had mashed potato poop since we had her at 8wks. Finally at 19wks, vet said she was giardia free (we had just seen them the day before for some vomiting issues and they sent us some sensitive stomach food home). We did the sensitive stomach wet only for a few days and her poop improved. When our supply was out, she went back to what we had before and got soft poop. Found out that the kibble was the issue. Switched kibble and her poop firmed up and has stayed that way since and she's 5mos now

Kind of irked at myself thinking it was giardia when it was possibly just the food

Feed him just wet for a day and see how he does. Then feed him dry for a day (the results would be immediate. If my pup had the kibble, her next poop was bad)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Just saw you are feeding Wellness.

You may want to consider a higher quality food like Fromm's, or IF you can afford it, The Honest Kitchen Love Dehydrated food.
FROMM’S: http://frommfamily.com/products/gold/dog/dry/#heartland-gold-large-breed-puppy Store Locator: http://frommfamily.com/retailers/usa/#progress=2 This is Family Owned, Family Run, & Family Manufactured. Most pet food companies are not.
*Fromm Family Foods is a fifth-generation family-owned and operated artisan pet food company.
*Produced with a commitment to quality and consistency at Fromm's hands-on facility in Wisconsin. High-nutrient digestibility and utilization offers complete and balanced nutrition.
*Third-party pathogenic bacteria testing is practiced on all production batches to ensure safety.



The Honest Kitchen Dehydrated Food(not kibble): LOVE: https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/love Store Locator: Where to Buy Honest Kitchen - Honest Kitchen Stores | The Honest Kitchen A 10# box RE-hydrates to about 35 pounds of food, but you feed more than kibble because it is real food.



What treats are you feeding?
I've been feeding Zukes treats and Wellness puppy treats. I've stopped giving those though because Im not sure whats upsetting his stomach. So the last couple days has only been boiled chicken as treats.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for all the good advice. He is most definitely 11 weeks old. He was born Oct. 27th So he is nearing 12 weeks.

I def plan to put him back on the pro-biotics as soon as the antibiotics are complete.

I also think making the bone broth is a great idea. I've heard that from some other people too.
 

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Hi Miz and WELCOME! :greet:

Really cute pup! Love those coaties!

Rough start for a pup!
Your pup needs good nutrition now. What brand name kibble are you feeding? What brand name treats?

Also it will be VERY important to get him on a high quality Probiotic because of the antibiotics he's been on. Antibiotic's kill the "good" bacteria in the gut.
Over 75% of the immune system lies in the gut so it is VERY important to keep it healthy. A Digestive Enzyme (to help him assimilate his food) is also important.

Here are some High Quality/Human Grade ingredient products made for dogs:
Sunday Sundae: NEW WEBSITE COMING SOON ? Working German Shepherds (click on “Contact” and use email to order)
Gut Sense : http://dr-dobias-natural-healing-usa...ducts/gutsense
Digest All Plus:
https://www.thewholisticpet.com/wholistic-digest-all-plustm.html
Animal Essentials: Plant Enzyme w/ Probiotics 3.5 oz 100 gm - Animal Essentials


A nutritious "Bone Broth" would give more nutrition than chicken or beef broth. You can purchase this or make your own.
The Honest Kitchen (100% human grade ingredients): https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/turkey-bone-broth
The "turkey" contains “ginger” for added digestion and or stomach problems

An additional item from The Honest Kitchen that you may want to consider is
their "Golden Milk: “Full of antioxidants, this formula will boost your pet's immune system and support overall health & well being.”
THK site: https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/golden-milk
To purchase: https://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Honest-Kitchen-Golden-Milk-Organic-Coconut-Milk/200109.aspx


Another thing to consider is Colostrum:
Quality is key:
"Only whole, intact colostrum contains the lipids that nature designed for colostrum. Defatted colostrum does not. If you think nature knows what it is doing and that colostrum should remain whole, intact, and pure, be sure that the colostrum you buy has not been defatted and that nothing has been added to it or taken away from it.
*Synertek colostrum is taken only from mature cows and not from the first lactation. This ensures that both the cows and the colostrum are immunologically mature. Each batch of colostrum is tested both by an in-house lab and an independent lab for organic quality and to be certain it meets the parameters of six hour colostrum, and only then is it certified.
*Synertek colostrum is harvested from U.S. Midwestern family farms, carefully chosen for overall quality, with appropriate regard for the health and welfare of the cows and calves, organic practices, and grass feeding.
Synertek Certified 1st Six Hour Colostrum
Dr. Andrew Jones dosage recommendations: The colostrum dose for dogs varies based on the company; I advise giving ¼ of the human dose per 20lbs daily.



I also agree with the others......enjoy this little bundle of joy and don't worry about "size".

Moms :)
A lot of good advice here, much appreciated. Do you think my pup is too old for the Colostrom? Where would I get something like that?
I am def going to be making the turkey bone broth this evening when I get home....Thanks!
 

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the entire beginning of this pups life was flawed.

it is not difficult to stimulate lactation.

their are herbs which can do this , fenugreek , alfalfa , brewers yeast -- improved base nutrition for the dam including
adequate liquid and good protein sources.

changes are the mother was worn out . How many litters had she had ? How old was she ?

was she is good condition?

that the "breeder" put two week old pups on boiled chicken says volumes .

the digestive system for a two week old pup is NOT DEVELOPED , not mature enough , lacking
to digest and absorb chicken let alone boiled enzyme deficient chicken .

the vitamin , MINERAL balance would have been so lacking .

his stomach is sensitive for a reason .

the very last thing this pup should be on is antibiotics .

a vet prescribed this . huh boy ---- no wonder we are in the mess we are in .

this pup needs the best high quality food possible.
this pup needs several small feeds per day .
this pup needs probiotics - essential fatty acids , a good mineral and vitamin

this has nothing to do with a genetic potential --- the pup is skin and bones --- not your fault

do NOT rush growth !!!!

deep nutriton , every calorie has to count for something - you are not pushing weight gain , you are targeting proper sustained growth and IMMUNE health

then there is vaccinations to consider -- the dog is not in prime health - I'll let others comment on this aspect

I would delay and/or alter vaccinations --

have realistic expectations - don't tax the pups . A normal 11 week old pup may meet certain physical expectations - this pup shouldn't be expected to meet them .
 

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Colostrum is used for different things in all ages of dogs, so no, your little guy could only benefit from it! Go to those sites and it will tell you how to purchase.

Unless you purchase THK Bone Broth, homemade takes about 24 hours to cook! Basic recipe ingredients are any kind of bones and vinegar.

Here is a recipe:
Bone Broth For Dogs? Here's Why It's A Great Idea!

Bone Broth:
Helps heal and seal your gut, and promotes healthy digestion: The gelatin found in bone broth is a hydrophilic colloid. It attracts and holds liquids, including digestive juices, thereby supporting proper digestion.” (Mercola)

Not everyone can afford it, but the following 2 statements really make ya think!
“Perhaps the most important caveat when making broth, whether you're using chicken or beef, is to make sure they're from organically-raised, pastured or grass-fed animals. ” (Mercola)


Sally Fallon of Weston Price Foundation: “Chickens raised in confined animal feeding operations (CAFOs) tend to produce stock that doesn't gel, and this gelatin has long been valued for its therapeutic properties. Besides that, CAFO animals are fed an unnatural diet that is not beneficial for their intestinal makeup, and they're also given a variety of veterinary drugs and growth promoters. You don't want any of these potentially harmful additives in your broth, so make sure to start off with an organically-raised product.”


Also, begin with small amounts and work up to approx 2-3 Tablespoons per meal, to avoid gut upset.
If stool gets loose, go back to previous amount used (where stool was solid) and hold at that amount for a few days until his gut gets use to it. Then increase again and watch. This is called "bowel tolerance".

I'll bet she has no trouble wanting to eat her food with bone broth on it! LOL

Keep us posted!
Moms :)
 

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going back to the beginning of the problem

at two weeks of age the eyes are just beginning to open

the pup can't get up walk -

the sucking reflex is still strong .

how did this person try to feed the pups a fat rich (brain and neural health) canine milk replacer .

each pup would have had to have some bottle feeding - time consuming

was this "breeder" flying by the seat of their pants - not reaching out to a vet or to a group that would give
good advice
or a shelter or other breeder with a wet-nurse dog that could have stood in for the next two weeks

there is no excuse for not trying to get good information these days

milk replacer is expensive

so on their own initiative they push boiled chicken to a young animal who still has that curled
sucking tongue and can't lap up liquid and definitely does not have the swallow sequence , -- and then they resort to a less expensive kibble

it's a wonder they survived

colostrum is a good idea -- probiotics --- fish oil for epa/dha --

the litter mates must have been dispersed locally -- anyway to support those owners to maximize the health of the others?
 
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