Nature vs nurture - Page 5 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #41 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 08:08 PM
Crowned Member
 
Nigel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Washington St.
Posts: 6,833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabis mom View Post
I want to have an honest discussion about the nature of dogs. Dozens of GSD's, well over a couple hundred dogs total, all sizes, breeds, ages and genders and they all ended up pretty much the same with their own personalities of course.

I have had no real issues with house training, or resource guarding. Very few fights. Only my Dane was destructive and difficult to crate train, but a sweeter natured dog I have never met.
Am I the luckiest person in the world? Or is there more to it then that?
I am horrible at training, I'm lazy and I sort of don't care. I seem to get to the stage were they aren't total ass hats and then I drop it. But in spite of that they all seem fine. I tend to have conversations with them, rather then barking commands at them. I have had multitudes of other critters around them and it's been mostly ok. I routinely take food and toys away, and in some cases have actually reached in and pulled stuff from their mouths, and I promote playing with their food. I manage some behaviors and stop others but all in all every dog that has been in my house is stable and well behaved. Fosters leave my house crate trained, house broken, knowing sit, stay, come, down and walking on a loose leash. They take food nicely and sit for their dinner. No dog issues or nasty behavior, like I said all in all no problems.
Except Shadow, but we can discuss her another time.

Do we actually create problems?
We have a FB page for training info. DW ended up joining a few Gsd groups and after seeing some of the stuff people post, I have no doubt humans are the problem the majority of the time.
Nigel is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 08:20 PM
Crowned Member
 
selzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denmark, Ohio
Posts: 31,479
I think we do create problems in dogs. Often our first dogs are really messed up. Probably because we didn't have a clue, and they taught us loads. Subsequent dogs are usually easier, not so much because we bought them from someone better, but because we did not repeat mistakes we made with the first one without realizing that the learning took place.

As we become less concerned, more relaxed, and have more realistic expectations for our pups/dogs, and have better discipline of our own selves with regard to our dogs, issues go down to zilch.

Yes, I think we create problems dogs have.

I think the great push to socialize dogs causes issues. People who are scared to death of making a mistake, are out there pushing their pups at everything while their pup has no confidence at all in their person. Of course we are creating problems.

Good breeders who have waiting lists of repeat customers, rarely have trouble with their pups, not so much because their pups are better than those around them, but because the owners are experienced. Most GSDs in the hands of people with good dog sense and experience do great. GSDs in the hands of newbies have more trouble, but a good dog can usually bring their person through this. Some people don't learn through experience, and this is why I get so wigged out about people taking responsibility for their dogs getting out and running loose, for people supposedly having oops litters, for people who have allowed their dogs to bite or own a dog that has bitten. If we do not take responsibility for our actions or inaction, if we blame the dog, or the guy speeding down the road, or the cop that shot the dog, or the hunter that shot the dog for running deer, or the farmer who shot the dog on his land, another dog will not be safe.

Babsy
Heidi Ho, Odie
Joy-Joy, Bear Cub, Hepsi-Pepsi
Cujo2, Karma Chameleon
Ramona the Pest, Kojak -- who loves you baby?
Tiny Tinnie, Susie's Uzzi, Kaiah -- The Baby Monster.
selzer is offline  
post #43 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 08:40 PM
Crowned Member
 
llombardo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 14,027
Does anyone with multiple dogs of different breeds notice that they pick up traits of the other breed? I swear Brennan the golden thinks he is a GSD and his main partner in crime as a pup was Midnite. I've caught him herding, he is super high ball driven and plays like a GSD. I think he thinks like a GSD(all his trainers said he is super smart) but is happier then any golden I ever met. Within the same breeds I see they learn from each other. Apollo has a more bossy personality like Robyn but he doesn't attempt to use it on Robyn. Tannor had trouble swimming and Brennan went out with him and taught him, next thing I know Tannor is swimming like a pro. Misty taught all of them how to use their butts in play. I can see it all over her face when they use that move on her, she doesn't like it. So while I work with each dog and focus on them individually and what they need, they get guidance from the older dogs. I think my older guys help me mold the younger ones. By the time the next group comes in, the younger guys will be the new older ones and the circle will continue.

Misty- Samoyed Mix, Tannor- Golden Retriever CGC
Robyn- GSD CGC, TC, Midnite-GSD CGC,TC, Brennan-Golden Retriever CGC, Batman-Husky/Greyhound , Apollo-GSD
llombardo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #44 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 09:01 PM
Moderator
 
dogfaeries's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Moore, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,043
I raised an Italian Greyhound puppy with an adult Doberman. That was the craftiest little IG I ever had. She used her brain. The other iggies? Not going to set the world on fire.

~ Diane ~

CARLY ......... Ch. Lauremi's No Reservations (AKC GCh pointed, HIC)
SCARLET ..... Lauremi's Almost Wasn't (AKC pointed)
and absent friends... SAGE ~ Lauremi's Whim Z v Jakmar ~ AKC major ptd, HIC ~ 2010-2015
dogfaeries is offline  
post #45 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 09:09 PM
Crowned Member
 
Nigel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Washington St.
Posts: 6,833
My 4 are all gsds, but they still learn from each other. Ranger likes to ram into the others during play. My girls never did this until he brought that to the table. This is also how Ranger ended up needing a tplo.

Ollie likes to "stomp" on things, kids, but mostly the other dogs. He rears up and takes a quick jab with one or both front feet in an attempt to get someone to play with or chase him. Our girl Tuke picked this up and now she does it to antagonize the others. I went to do some heel work with her last night (basement) and while I have a small wood box made up for this, I didn't feel like going outside to get it, so used a small cardboard box with a few towels inside. It would of worked, but when I called her into position she reared up and stomped it, ok let's try that again, stomp, stomp, gone, we just worked on some turns instead.
Nigel is offline  
post #46 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 03:15 AM Thread Starter
Crowned Member
 
Sabis mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by MineAreWorkingline View Post
Yes, but that's discussing things like IQ, artistic ability and predisposition to certain behaviors. Not attitude and personality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogfaeries View Post
I feel like I could've written this.

I've had dogs all my life, which is a considerable amount of time seeing that I turned 60 yesterday. Herding dogs, working dogs, terriers, toys, hounds. While they have these hardwired traits particular to their breeds, I've noticed a similarity among the dogs that I have raised from puppies. They have all been bold, pushy, and funny. From Dobe to GSD to sheltie to IG to yorkie, they all have been more than a little sassy. I love that in a dog. I loved that Sage talked back. I love that Russell LOVES life so much that he might explode. I loved that my IG Zelda could outsmart me. Considering that these are all completely different breeds, I can only conclude that it's something I'm doing.

I absolutely feel like a major slacker when it comes to training my dogs. I get on here and everyone's puppy could practically get their CD when they are 3 months old. Russell is almost three and doesn't know the sit command, LOL. He's not unruly though. They all have manners. We have a calm household, and they just seem to follow suit.
My first dog ever was a Yorkie, bold as brass, sassy and outgoing. Couple of Collie crosses, bunches of Terriers and mixes, several Staffies, two Sheties, a Poodle, a Dobe, a Rotti, a Dane, an Elkhound, a Wolfhound, a Chessie, a Goldie, a Lab, a couple Coonies and some True Blue Mystery Mutts. They all had that same sweet, silly, chatty, adventurous personality. I think you and I are related.

Quote:
Originally Posted by llombardo View Post
Does anyone with multiple dogs of different breeds notice that they pick up traits of the other breed? I swear Brennan the golden thinks he is a GSD and his main partner in crime as a pup was Midnite. I've caught him herding, he is super high ball driven and plays like a GSD. I think he thinks like a GSD(all his trainers said he is super smart) but is happier then any golden I ever met. Within the same breeds I see they learn from each other. Apollo has a more bossy personality like Robyn but he doesn't attempt to use it on Robyn. Tannor had trouble swimming and Brennan went out with him and taught him, next thing I know Tannor is swimming like a pro. Misty taught all of them how to use their butts in play. I can see it all over her face when they use that move on her, she doesn't like it. So while I work with each dog and focus on them individually and what they need, they get guidance from the older dogs. I think my older guys help me mold the younger ones. By the time the next group comes in, the younger guys will be the new older ones and the circle will continue.
Yup they all act like morons, and they teach the newbies. But here's a kicker for you. Along with being nanny to bunches of pups, Sabi looked after a couple of kittens, a couple of goats and a baby jackrabbit. They ALL behaved like dogs. Couple ounces of jackbunny running to the door to confront visitors and chasing a rolling ball. The baby robins just behaved like birds but they did follow her around and sleep on her. The chicken that my Dane had attacked an intruder in the backyard while the dogs were in their runs. Point is if another species can adopt dog like behavior is it unreasonable to think that different breeds of dog will behave in a similar fashion if afforded the same upbringing?
Sabis mom is online now  
post #47 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 03:22 AM Thread Starter
Crowned Member
 
Sabis mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,214
Nature vs nurture-sabs-steve.jpg

In case you all thought I might be kidding. Sabs and her Steve.
Sabis mom is online now  
post #48 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 08:06 AM
Crowned Member
 
Jenny720's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 6,382
There is no doubt a lot of behavior is learned depending on the individual surroundings and upbringing. I think genetics also plays a role of capability. We had a parakeet growing up-officer bird. Great name for a great watch bird. He learned to chirp from our dogs who barked when ever someone came onto the property. Officer bird became the first one who alerted when someone was on our property then the dogs would chime in after. We have a horse a nearby barn every time we go there and its time for my daughter and I to leave -our horse would always lick the stall bars. Throughout the years he has had three different horses that were in the stall next to him. Each one eventually started licking the stall bars along with our horse every time when we left. Now after almost a year the horse behind our horses stall just started licking the bars when we leave. So every time we leave our horse, the horse next to him and behind his stall all lick the stall bars. Years ago my kids watched the movie air bud. They made many attempts to teach our chihuahua -topper to play fetch with no success. Years later when we got our german shepherd-max we taught him how to play fetch. Our chihuahua watched us play many hours of fetch with our german shepherd Our little chihuahua taught himself how to play fetch and showed us himself that he knows how to play just by watching us play fetch with our gsd. Sabis mom- that is the most priceless picture


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Jenny720; 11-11-2015 at 08:12 AM.
Jenny720 is offline  
post #49 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 10:50 AM
Senior Member
 
HOBY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: The Berkshires USA
Posts: 426
We humans use a dogs intuitive abilities which is genetic from nature and we nurture that in the dog to get the right job done. We do that knowingly and unknowingly. From the dogs perspective, anyone ever tell you, "that dog has you trained?" Talk about being plugged into each other.
HOBY is offline  
post #50 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 11:20 AM
Administrator
 
WIBackpacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabis mom View Post
Attachment 329394

In case you all thought I might be kidding. Sabs and her Steve.
That is a great picture, I love it. I used to have a huge Flemish Giant rabbit that was a magnet of friendship to all species, it was the strangest thing. He hung out with chickens (and snuggled the baby chicks to keep them warm just like hens do), and enjoyed hanging out on the couch watching TV with my GSD, among other things. I never had a problem with dogs chasing him and the cats avoided him, largely (I think) because he acted like a dog and I sort of treated him like one when he was very young (crate/interaction/exercise/etc).

To the original topic at hand.... I think it would be a monumental challenge to create instructions of that sort, essentially it's on par with creating a parenting manual. An infinite number of variables, quite daunting really.

I do think some humans have an easier time developing intuitive relationships with dogs (and other species), because they are naturally intuitive people themselves. And that might be the nature of the person, not just the nature of the dog.

Often, those seem to be the (intuitive) individuals who chose to surround themselves with animals from childhood through adulthood. They trained the family dog, they had as many other pets as parents would allow, they helped rescue broken wild critters in the yard. Some people are naturally at ease around dogs, just like some people are naturally at ease around horses, etc. A person close to me was involved in rehab of injured wild birds/waterfowl, I ended up involved, and now I'm of the opinion that the same holds true for wildlife people. Some individuals are just good at working with animals, and are inherently in tune with what's going on in the critter's mind.

So now that I've thought about it some more, I'm of the opinion that:

Nature of the Person (is of equal importance to) the Nature of the Dog.

Add Nurture. The result is your Relationship.
WIBackpacker is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome