Nature vs nurture - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #11 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-09-2015, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Dogyeller I like that.

I can say I have my moments, I remember having 21 dogs, 7 cats and a chicken in my house and someone was doing something bad and I walked in and yelled 'kennel'! In half a second there was not an animal in sight, lol. Some crates had 3 dogs, some had none, nobody was in their crate, but every dog was out of sight. I laugh now, at that time I was thinking about dog fur jackets. I don't even remember what they were doing, I think it was just a dumped plant and everyone playing with the dirt, or something similarly dumb.
Maybe it is as simple as that I have low expectations. I expect barking, whining, shedding, spilled drinks, muddy floors, ruined furniture and bruises so when they happen they aren't tragedies.
My Dane was deaf, so I can sympathize with training a special dog. Twenty years ago people didn't train deaf dogs they killed them so I had no support, no advice, no guidelines. She turned out fabulous, but I won't take any credit. She was just a great dog.
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post #12 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-09-2015, 03:00 PM
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More like realistic expectations?I'm curious as to what you would do to get your Dane's attention when you needed him to look at you.I read somewhere about a woman who used a laser pointer to communicate with her deaf dog.I had a sheltie who was deaf in his senior years so I would walk around in front of him to get his attention.If he was some distance away outside I would wave my arms around until he noticed,then talk to him with hand signals.I would have to figure out a more efficient way if I had a deaf dog for many years.

Terri

Samson Blk/Slvr GSD. RN
Misty Husky Mix
Z-Z Terrier/potato mix
Devo Yorkie Mix at the bridge
Dakota Wht GSD at the bridge

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post #13 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-09-2015, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Inside I tapped my foot on the floor, outside I used a flashing light or a small mirror. In spite of having figured out by 10 weeks old that if she turned her head she could ignore me, she went on to learn over 100 signs and signals, she was a certified therapy dog and she never met a stranger. She was the steadiest, sweetest, most intuitive dog I have ever met and to this day when I talk about my deaf Dane, I get the 'Oh! You were Freeways mom. ' response. She was well known and much loved.
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post #14 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-09-2015, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Daisy&Lucky's Mom View Post
Sometimes a post is just a snapshot of a day in the life of that person and their dog. Sometimes i have a bad day which generally means my dogs are having bad days. if I wrote a post yesterday about Charlie and her training you would have recommended I have an inanimate object as a pet. I am no trainer ,Im not sure how Daisy got house trained ,Lucky came trained and Charlie has it down pretty well.I just remember Dasiy suddenly just got it and it wasnt an issue same w/ recall and sit. She never liked the down command and stay.She knew stop though.. Charlie is my first dog who has a sightimpairment and training is more difficult. Its different and I find myself second guessing alot. Daisy was smart too smart somtimes. Lucky wanted to be with me so he behaved well. Chevy and Thunder just wanted to relax by the fire or around us on the couch or outside. They were seniors who just wanted quiet. No real training just enough to exist together. Charlie is a different ballgame all together then my others . I bond w/ my dogs and Iam the one they want to be with but I am no dog whisperer and yesterday I was the dogyeller.
Hahaha! Too funny!! We all have days like that...

I do think that there are people who have a gift with animals, a special affinity that allows them to understand and communicate in a way that's exceptional. Education and experience are just the icing on the cake.
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post #15 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-09-2015, 03:35 PM
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Most dogs breeds are purpose bred to exhibit specific behavioral qualities. This is one of the things that give us dog breeds. To believe that dogs are primarily how they are raised would denote that breed specific behaviors are of little to no consequence. If that were true, all dogs of all breeds would possess equal ability to hunt rabbits, to be police K9s, to point birds, etc.

Despite raising my dogs all the same, their genetics demand that I treat and train them differently. I think the most that people can do is enhance or suppress a dog's natural behaviors.
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post #16 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-09-2015, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Sabis mom View Post
Inside I tapped my foot on the floor, outside I used a flashing light or a small mirror. In spite of having figured out by 10 weeks old that if she turned her head she could ignore me, she went on to learn over 100 signs and signals, she was a certified therapy dog and she never met a stranger. She was the steadiest, sweetest, most intuitive dog I have ever met and to this day when I talk about my deaf Dane, I get the 'Oh! You were Freeways mom. ' response. She was well known and much loved.
That's really wonderful.Thanks for sharing that story.Freeway was so lucky to have you.

Terri

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Misty Husky Mix
Z-Z Terrier/potato mix
Devo Yorkie Mix at the bridge
Dakota Wht GSD at the bridge
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post #17 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-09-2015, 06:07 PM
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Nature vs Nurture.

for me, nature comes first. Hence why I am only interested in working line genes. I want a pup that is environmentally sound, is capable of working. Has masses of prey drive and strong nerve. At 8 weeks when its selected, these attributes are evident. I get pups from working parents. To enhance the likelihood that a pup that can work - will be produced. But in a litter of 8 pups on average, not all will make the grade for me. Im a sucker for a pup, so have my trainer or breeder select the right pup for the job i have in mind for it.

Then from a great genes start point, i can layer nurture for its entire life span.

A few years ago, i took in a mastiff rescue. My first ever non working line dog. Such a bad match for my lifestyle, i knew he was never going to stay forever, but would be re-homed as a pet at some point.
Mastiff's are as thick as two short planks in comparison to working rotties and GSD's. This was nature. Pure nature.

Whilst his focus increased, and the bond developed, and obedience came, it was slow going. As the dogs nature, was not to seek company of humans, mastiff's have independent natures. Not pack driven. They attach to a person, rather than a family.

Nothing wrong with that dog. Just nature of me, does not match that type of dog.
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post #18 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 03:24 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MineAreWorkingline View Post
Most dogs breeds are purpose bred to exhibit specific behavioral qualities. This is one of the things that give us dog breeds. To believe that dogs are primarily how they are raised would denote that breed specific behaviors are of little to no consequence. If that were true, all dogs of all breeds would possess equal ability to hunt rabbits, to be police K9s, to point birds, etc.

Despite raising my dogs all the same, their genetics demand that I treat and train them differently. I think the most that people can do is enhance or suppress a dog's natural behaviors.
I get what you are saying but then why are my GSD's different. I was thinking that most have been rescues and the lineage was not great, but Buds fairly well bred and with some differences in personality he is pretty much like the rest. I guess I tend to be a bit more rigid with Bud, he's more comfortable that way, but even at his worst he wasn't awful. I am just really curious where all these terrible puppies come from.

Sabi chewed up some plastic blocks as a pup.
I had one foster who chewed a couple of books and a sock.
Shadow had a thing about one specific lamp cord.
We called Bud the toy killer, but he never chewed anything else.
Gita chewed one shoe.
I had another foster pup that had some fixation with Kleenex.
This seems pretty minor, and the rest I don't recall chewing up anything.

I have had the odd crate issue but Shadow was the worst and she really wasn't bad.
I don't recall any serious house breaking problems, most of them got in in days.
Just GSDs I've gone through 7 litters, some with mom and some without, 5 or 6 singletons, at least 18 between 2 and 6 months, 7 or 8 between 6 months and a year and 11 between 1 and 2.
That's just the youngsters, and that's mostly rescues from questionable breeding and some really rotten places.
So am I really lucky?
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post #19 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 09:06 AM
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So am I really lucky?
By the sounds of it you have a lot of experience and so your not lucky but naturally attuned to your dogs needs and so they don't have issues.

How hard is it once you know what is an aceptable or not behavior from a pup/dog.

But if I threw you a un submissive,human aggressive pup with fear issues i wonder would you handle it so well. But maybe you've dealth with that kinda dog too.

Personally I see fear issues with aggression, as something which is not so easy to simply do nothing about and needs a management system in place.
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post #20 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 09:20 AM
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If you are working with rescue organizations I'm guessing they don't offer you dogs with serious fear/aggression issues in the first place?

Terri

Samson Blk/Slvr GSD. RN
Misty Husky Mix
Z-Z Terrier/potato mix
Devo Yorkie Mix at the bridge
Dakota Wht GSD at the bridge
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