Teaching Engagement - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-24-2015, 08:07 PM
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What do you do if you have a dog that isn't motivated by toys, praise, and not comfortable with touch? If food is their ONLY motivator?
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-24-2015, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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My whole point for this post was for puppies I said in my first sentence that this is what I did with my dog when I got her as a puppy at nine weeks The first thing I would do if I had a dog like that is literally just sit beside it for a couple of hours every single day moving closer and closer slowly touching it backing away slowly touching it and giving the dog the respect in the space that it is asking for This might take weeks but at some point the dog will seek out some attention or affection from you and then you can move from there

Another thing that I have seen done on videos is to have the dog work for its food Very similar to be nothing in life is free so instead of feeding your dog a meal every single thing you wanted to do you do with food because you were trying to build trust and very similar to be nothing in life is free so instead of feeding your dog a meal every single thing you wanted to do you do with food because you were trying to build trust and a bond a bond

I would do this with an adult dog but I wouldn't do this with the puppy

It's important to remember that when they are puppies you are the most important thing to them you are there universe they've just been pulled away from their litter and their mom and you Are #1 in their life

We see tons of post about people bragging about how awesome their dog is at 2, 3, 4 month-old how was following them all over the place and always wanting to play with them
What I'm trying to say is this is the perfect time to engage your dog in play bonding training without having to use food because you are number one in their life

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-24-2015, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Kyleigh View Post
While these comments are great, I was actually hoping other people would chime in with their experiences and tips on teaching engagement / bonding with your dog.

I did stress a number of times in my post that these were things I did, and they were my opinions. I certainly wasn't looking to challenge anyone's training methods. These were things I have done and I have huge success with ...
Lol Kyleigh!I think it's just become a habit around here to pick apart people's posts

One thing I did with my Sheltie Max(RIP) was to keep him on a long line as we walked and when he would get really interested in something or other,I would call him back and reel him in if necessary.Then throw a party!He got so he was checking in with me constantly and eventually I could have him off leash anywhere and he never wandered where he couldn't keep eyes on me.Even if he took off after a squirrel or something he would check himself before going very far,then come flying back and run a few circles around me.

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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-24-2015, 08:22 PM
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Oh, I didn't mean that to be challenging, I was actually asking as more of an advice thing. Your method makes sense to me, but can't apply across the board to all dogs, so I was just wondering what you would do in that situation
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-24-2015, 08:33 PM
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My puppies (with food/toy drive) are raised working for the majority of their meals during training sessions. I also raise them strictly with food or toy reinforcement based training, paired with praise, and have never had an issue with engagement or with bonding.

My older dog does not have high food or toy drive, and I needed to resort to compulsion with escape/praise as the motivator type training as you described, and at the higher levels of obedience needed for trialing, it doesn't hold up.

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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-24-2015, 08:42 PM
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Oh, I didn't mean that to be challenging, I was actually asking as more of an advice thing. Your method makes sense to me, but can't apply across the board to all dogs, so I was just wondering what you would do in that situation
A book I read by Patricia McConnell suggested touching your dog lightly on her collar whenever you give a treat.In that context it was to make sure you could always grab the collar quickly and your dog wouldn't shy away.But it might be a way for you to get her to look forward to touch?Treat and touch different spots maybe?

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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-24-2015, 09:01 PM
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Dogma, Lyka is fine with touch with me, it was just an example. She loves physical touch with me, but it generally seems to give her the zoomies, so using it in training would be a fail. Lol
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-24-2015, 09:10 PM
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Dogma, Lyka is fine with touch with me, it was just an example. She loves physical touch with me, but it generally seems to give her the zoomies, so using it in training would be a fail. Lol
Ok,never mind

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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-24-2015, 10:16 PM
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"From what you described, I get the impression you've come across people who don't understand the difference between rewards and letting it become a bribe"

This!

I understand that you're just stating your opinion, experiences and success - but the mere mention of bribery as an argument towards never using food or in support of achieving better engagement... just as Steve put it, suggests a misinformed and poorly executed usage of food (which, don't get me wrong, I see it happen all the time but I'd never consider that a dog that's engaged in learning/training).

it'd be similar to saying I never give my dog physical corrections because I dont think it's necessary to abuse dogs, that's why my dog is better behaved.

anyway, sidebar for sure....

I do appreciate you explaining your techniques.

personally I use every tool available to me.... food, toy, praise, pressure/release, compulsion, etc etc. because my dogs are rescues - my most recent pup quickly learned that I was the coolest most rewarding fun and valuable person ever because A) every morsel of food (primary reinforcement) that went into him that first month came from my hand, B) out of crate time generally meant we were playing, training or exercising (w/o my other dog), C) no balls, just tugs and flirt poles to remain interactive (attached physically oppose to running away from me) and lastly, you are indeed correct, because I doesn't mind looking a fool while out in the public enjoying my dog

TILDEN: Male: Blk/Red LHGSD: DOB: 12/24/06 65lbs of Love
KEYSTONE: Male: Sable: DOB: 2/11/13 55lbs of Go!!!!!

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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-25-2015, 07:34 AM Thread Starter
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These are great comments for people who are struggling with their dogs to read and try and incorporate into their relationship with their dog.

I use purely positive reinforcement training with my parrot and it works beautifully ... I have no objection to people using it ... when done properly. What I have an objection to is people using food as a bribe to get the dog to do what they want ...

How many of you have seen people at a park calling their dog 20 times waving treats in the air and the dog is still in la la land? Or how many times have you seen some one say SIT SIT SIT SIT and when the dog finally sits they give it a treat? This is the kind of behaviour (from the people) and training (or lack there of) that I am referring to.

I also believe (again, my opinion) that when you come home with a 9-week old puppy you can create what motivates it - food, toy, you, etc. I chose, with my current dog, when she was a puppy to make ME the biggest motivator, reward ever.

Puppies are pretty much blank slates and we create what we want with them - to a point of course, I certainly recognize that there are differences in drive, etc.

I see so many people with their dogs, have read tons of threads on here about people having problems with the bond with their dog, and getting their dog engaged with them.

I see people walking their dogs and they might as well be invisible to their dog ... the dog is oblivious to the owner at the end of the leash. This clearly demonstrates - no engagement on the part of the owner with the dog.

This thread was explicitly meant for puppies ... there have been so many new threads started on here with "help, my puppy is ..." My hope was, and continues to be, that people will chime in with games they've come up with, training techniques they've incorporated so the newbies can read this and say OH WOW ... here's something I could try.

Finally, it is to also help the newbies realize just HOW MUCH work is involved in working with your puppy / dog ... there are hours and hours and hours of training, playing, bonding, etc. that must be done in all weather conditions, in all situations, in order to have that AMAZING dog we all wanted when we got the puppy in the first place.

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