To breed or not to breed, that is the question... - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #11 of 229 (permalink) Old 08-12-2014, 12:26 PM
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post #12 of 229 (permalink) Old 08-12-2014, 12:29 PM
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Buying from a breeder does not mean a shelter dog dies. That is such a ridiculous argument.
i have never understood this logic
if nobody adopts a shelter dog then yes it does die

how is that not true
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post #13 of 229 (permalink) Old 08-12-2014, 12:35 PM
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Saying purchasing from a breeder is killing a shelter dog is truly a load of garbage. It's a chicken/egg argument, the dog was bred somewhere in the world and all dogs deserve a loving home. Where it comes from once it's born is irrelevant to the worthiness of the dog to live in a good home

If every dog was never bred again, well there would be no more dogs very quickly wouldn't there. What we need are more breeders that health test, title, and are truly working at sustaining and improving the breed rather than just breeding two dogs because they are pretty or the family wants a puppy from their special dog. Everyone believes their dog is special, but that doesn't mean they are special enough to add more dogs into the world.

I have a dog from a reputable breeder, I stupidly bought a dog from a BYB, and my first dog was rescued from a shelter. I currently volunteer with a local rescue and my parents foster for the same rescue. All my dogs were and are special in their own way, but from now on I completely leave the breeding to the people that spend years researching and planning. If you want a great dog, stack the odds in your favour


On the flip side there are many awful rescues and shelters out there just grabbing animals left and right so they can make a buck 'selling' them to Joe Public without a thought to the quality of life that animal will have. They just want to look good in the public eye and make money under the table. Those people disgust me just as much as awful breeders do




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post #14 of 229 (permalink) Old 08-12-2014, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Shade View Post
Saying purchasing from a breeder is killing a shelter dog is truly a load of garbage. It's a chicken/egg argument, the dog was bred somewhere in the world and all dogs deserve a loving home. Where it comes from once it's born is irrelevant to the worthiness of the dog to live in a good home

If every dog was never bred again, well there would be no more dogs very quickly wouldn't there. What we need are more breeders that health test, title, and are truly working at sustaining and improving the breed rather than just breeding two dogs because they are pretty or the family wants a puppy from their special dog. Everyone believes their dog is special, but that doesn't mean they are special enough to add more dogs into the world.

I have a dog from a reputable breeder, I stupidly bought a dog from a BYB, and my first dog was rescued from a shelter. I currently volunteer with a local rescue and my parents foster for the same rescue. All my dogs were and are special in their own way, but from now on I completely leave the breeding to the people that spend years researching and planning. If you want a great dog, stack the odds in your favour


On the flip side there are many awful rescues and shelters out there just grabbing animals left and right so they can make a buck 'selling' them to Joe Public without a thought to the quality of life that animal will have. They just want to look good in the public eye and make money under the table. Those people disgust me just as much as awful breeders do
Lol I just posted without making any comment. What I was gonna say was "We'll said" 😃😉



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post #15 of 229 (permalink) Old 08-12-2014, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by my boy diesel View Post
i have never understood this logic
if nobody adopts a shelter dog then yes it does die

how is that not true
When I made the decision to get Delgado I had already exhausted the rescue/shelter route. I knew I was looking for a breeder so irregardless of what dogs were in the rescue/shelter I wasn't looking at adopting anyways. I wanted the health guarantee, I wanted the breeder support, I wanted the registered pedigree, I wanted a dog I could trust in most if not all circumstances - I wasn't even opening Petfinder or checking anywhere so yes a good match may have slipped through my fingers but truly I didn't and don't care.

People that have decided either way (and that is a high percentage) aren't going to be swayed. Or the opposite happens and they see a photo and fall in love within moments, where the dog came from at that moment doesn’t matter one bit.

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Jasmine - Female Miniature Poodle - born Aug 15, 2010
Loker Delgado Von Stalworth - Male GSD - born Jan 26, 2012
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post #16 of 229 (permalink) Old 08-12-2014, 12:37 PM
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Of course there are times when it's ok to buy from a breeder. It's a personal decision. Personally, I wanted something very specific in terms of temperament and drive, and I wanted the cards stacked in my favor. All of my rescues have been good dogs that I loved, but had major issues. I wanted to minimize those chances and know what I was getting. I also wanted a dog to compete in IPO with- something that is extremely difficult to find in a shelter (you have a slightly better chance with a rescue), and I'm too novice at the sport to know what to look for in an adult dog that would make them suitable for the sport. I also wanted a dog that would be suitable to work livestock and balanced enough to still be a house pet.

Good, reputable breeders take the time to ensure their dogs go to suitable homes where they won't be dumped, and if life circumstances change they will always take their dogs back. Most of the breeders I know are also active in rescue, through evaluating, fostering, etc. To say that a shelter dog loses their chance when someone purchases from a breeder is ignorant at best. I didn't kill another dog by buying my dog. I wasn't ready for a rescue at the time, so if I didn't buy my dog I would have ended up with NO dog- it's not just "get a dog for the sake of getting a dog, and you have two options."

Rescues are also notoriously difficult. It is EXTREMELY difficult to adopt from GSD-specific rescues around here, especially if you have children or other animals. I've also had bad experiences with shady rescues (and yes, just like there are shady breeders, there are shady rescues). The time will come when I will take in a rescue, but there is only one person I trust at this point (and who I have enough of a relationship with where I'm not just a bulleted checklist on an application).

As for breeding, the really good, reputable breeders do what they do to better the breed we all love. If careful breeding didn't happen, all that would be left are the genetic messes produced by Joe Schmoe with the cute puppies who would still be breeding no matter what. That would mean the end of this breed. Take the time to get to know some GOOD breeders and appreciate the amount of love and time and knowledge that goes into what they do... the work behind studying pedigrees, training and titling their dogs, etc... breeding isn't just slapping a male and female together. My female is pretty much EXACTLY what she was predicted to be when experts looked at her pedigree. It's nice to know what I'm in for... and that I also have the help and support of her breeder should issues ever arise in the future.

Basically, it's not either-or. Many of us here have both breeder dogs and rescues, and many breeders participate in rescue. There's no, "for every puppy produced by a breeder, one dies in a shelter..."

Unfortunately, there are shady rescues out there. I've adopted from them. I have also owned byb.

You're exactly right. Too much of the breeding goes on at the bottom. If good breeders who breed to the standard, get their health clearances, title their dogs, etc, didn't exist, the GSD would be complletely ruined.

Dogs are not fungible. My buying a pup for IPO doesn't mean there is a shelter dog I didn't take. It means I'm not likely to find a puppy with the right drives, nerves & temperament for IPO at the shelter.

I've done plenty of rescue, btw.
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post #17 of 229 (permalink) Old 08-12-2014, 12:38 PM
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I have 4 dogs that all came from different places/situations. My lab mix came from a pregnant dog that we found on the streets of Mexico. A family member took the dog in, cared for her when she had her puppies, found homes for them (we took 1), got her spayed, and she still lives with her now. My aussie mix came from a high kill animal shelter. My chihuahua/dachshund mix came from a rescue. I have also fostered and volunteered at animal shelters, so I am well acquainted with the pet overpopulation problem. My 4th dog is a GSD from a responsible breeder. Why did we decide to go that route?

1. We wanted a GSD; a dog with specific traits and temperament. While we are definitely a "pet home," we also wanted a dog to get involved in sports with.

2. A well-bred GSD is a wonderful dog, but a poorly-bred one can be a disaster and a liability. We needed a dog that would be safe and social around people, kids, our other dogs, and our cat.

3. I wanted to stack the odds in my favor by getting a dog with a good genetic background and raising the dog the way I wanted to from a puppy.

There are many wonderful dogs in shelters and rescues. I know it; I have 3 at my feet right now. But I strongly disagree with the idea that someone who buys from a responsible breeder is taking a home away from a shelter dog. I got my GSD with specific things in mind, and a shelter dog would not have fit my requirements. This doesn't mean that I won't rescue another dog in the future or that I don't help shelters and rescues now in other ways. Also there's a huge difference between the truly responsible, reputable breeders whose dogs do not end up in animal shelters and your average back yard breeder who pumps out puppies just to make a buck. But the biggest problem are the irresponsible pet owners whose intact pets continue to breed indiscriminately and fill up animal shelters.

Pet overpopulation is a serious issue, but good breeders and those who buy from them aren't the problem. If you want to make a difference: educate people on responsible pet ownership, spaying/neutering pets, only getting a suitable pet for your lifestyle, training your pets, and not getting rid of your pets when are no longer new and become an "inconvenience."
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post #18 of 229 (permalink) Old 08-12-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by my boy diesel View Post
i have never understood this logic
if nobody adopts a shelter dog then yes it does die

how is that not true
Because it assumes that the shelter dog and the dog purchased from a breeder are the same, with equivalent traits. This is only very rarely the case. Most often, they are apples and oranges.

Now if someone is just looking for a sound family pet and doesn't have particular requirements for breed, size, color, etc... then certainly they may be able to find this dog in a shelter. If they are looking for a sound family pet that is also a purebred of a specific breed, their chances drop but it is still possible.

If, as has been said previously in the thread, someone is looking for a dog for a specific purpose... competition in any number of sports, police work, SAR, guide work, service work, show, then the chances of them finding such a dog in a shelter are very slim. If they want documented pedigree and known ancestry on the dog... which isn't just for ego but can provide valuable insight into any health or temperament problems that may be present in the bloodlines and thus arise in the future... then the chances of finding that in a shelter are pretty much zero.

So bottom line, for many pet owners the shelter is a viable option. For pet owners looking for something specific, it often is not. For people looking for dogs for sport or work, they'd have a better chance finding a needle in a haystack in most cases. Thus, there is really no competition. The shelter doesn't offer what some people want, and breeders are the only option. Likewise, the breeders with proven track records of producing quality dogs that can succeed in a variety of endeavors are typically not the ones whose dogs end up in the shelter.

So it is absolutely NOT correct to say that when they buy from a breeder a shelter dog dies, because what they want isn't going to be found in the shelter.


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post #19 of 229 (permalink) Old 08-12-2014, 12:47 PM
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well usually what really happens is that people dont want a rescued dog but dont want to fork over the $1200 or more for a well bred one so they go to a bad breeder

and get a crap dog from them

more people should encourage rescue when people dont want to spend or cannot spend $1000 + for a well bred dog

because until that happens bad breeders will always have a market

you do realize that people on this forum are a minority in actually caring about where their puppy comes from, right?

Quote:
what they want isn't going to be found in the shelter.
i replied to shade and when i hit the enter key i saw your reply
i do think that other than high level ipo for instance you can find good dogs in shelters
drug detection and bomb dogs and sar dogs often come from shelters and the people who train them visit shelters regularly to check for ball crazy dogs to be their next drug or bomb dog

Last edited by my boy diesel; 08-12-2014 at 12:50 PM.
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post #20 of 229 (permalink) Old 08-12-2014, 12:54 PM
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i replied to shade and when i hit the enter key i saw your reply
i do think that other than high level ipo for instance you can find good dogs in shelters
drug detection and bomb dogs and sar dogs often come from shelters and the people who train them visit shelters regularly to check for ball crazy dogs to be their next drug or bomb dog
I don't think it's "often." It does happen, sure... and usually the rescues that are used are actually really well-bred dogs that somehow ended up in a shelter (or more commonly, a breed-specific rescue). The chances of finding one are pretty small though, and then a fairly large amount of resources has to go into evaluation and fixing whatever problems the dog likely has. I know of someone who has a dutchie who would very likely have made an excellent narc dog, but a monumental amount of time and resources would need to go into fixing her issues in order for her to be functional for a police unit. He's a retired officer who solely does rescue now, so he's got that time, but most departments don't have that available.
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