Third Way? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-22-2008, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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Third Way?

Anyone use Chris Bach's training method 'The Third Way'?

DH & I met Chris at Camp Dogwood a couple years ago and had the chance to sit and talk with her. We really like her and her ideas. We purchased her book (and had her autograph it ) and I've been looking for someplace that teaches using that method.

I finally did. Not far from us, either! We go to the orientation class this weekend and then will start the class after the holidays.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-22-2008, 04:48 PM
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Re: Third Way?

Ok, go ahead and make me feel stupid....

Chris Bach's training method 'The Third Way' Click Here

HEY, now I'm going to the site and actually reading up on it.

What impressed you the most about it and her? How was it different from what you were using?




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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-22-2008, 04:49 PM
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Re: Third Way?

I came across a local trainer that uses it, but when I searched for a website I could't figure out what was different without spending a bunch of money http://www.trainthethirdway.com/index.asp


Dante - March 2004
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-22-2008, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Third Way?

Ok, it's been a couple years and my memory has been chemically-damaged but ...

I remember she reminded of Suzanne Clothier and her ideas. I seem to remember the very basis of the training is built on focus (I could be wrong).

I'll have to go dig out her book and read through it again. I'll come back here and update you guys after I read it.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-04-2009, 07:28 PM
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Re: Third Way?

I did some more poking around
http://www.unleashyourself.biz/philosophy.shtml

Quote:
Quote:* The First Way: This traditional form of training teaches dogs basic skills through dominating and suppressing them (through the use of choke chains, discipline, and negative reinforcement) to the point where they are too intimidated to not comply. Most of the problems people have with dogs who were trained in this manner are actually the result of the training itself.

* The Second Way: In this method, referred to as "positive reinforcement," trainers use food, toys, and excitement to obtain the dog's cooperation. Trainers bribe or lure their dogs with food or "rev" dogs up emotionally to make training fun and keep their attention. The drawbacks are that dogs can become overly aroused by food and that the excitement of the training situation isn't possible to maintain in everyday life, which makes it difficult for the dog to perform consistently. This results in frustrated humans and dogs mislabeled as "defiant" or "stubborn."

* THE THIRD WAY is about motivating your dog to perform the desired behaviors on a voluntary basis. We do not make the dog do anything. Instead, we teach you to create situations in which your dog chooses to perform the desired behaviors. Rather than coerce or arouse your dog, we focus on giving your dog information and reinforcing your dog for being calm and focused, even in the presence of distractions. This results in better trained, more reliable dogs and better dog/owner relationships. THE THIRD WAY eliminates the problems caused by using suppression, arousal or luring to make a dog perform.

• A dog has to be doing the desired response in order for it to become voluntary

• They have to be performing that response and not be lured into it. This is why we do not use lure training. Lure training doesn't allow for habits to happen. Lure training teaches the dog to get into the habit of following the food; it doesnąt get them into the habit of performing the behavior. It is not as effective as THE THIRD WAY.
Unfortunately for me all the websites I've found are written in such a way that I find myself unintrested in reading very far.


http://www.unleashyourself.biz/

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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-04-2009, 07:50 PM
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Re: Third Way?

Quote:
Quote:• They have to be performing that response and not be lured into it. This is why we do not use lure training. Lure training doesn't allow for habits to happen. Lure training teaches the dog to get into the habit of following the food; it doesnąt get them into the habit of performing the behavior. It is not as effective as THE THIRD WAY.
Well, without knowing more about her methods, I'd have to disagree with this part. I call Keeta my remote-control dog, because I can control her behaviour with body language: move here, turn around, drop your head, lift your leg, close in the heel position, step out of the tangled long-line, etc. etc. I use hand movements and she follows them well. Sure, I started teaching basics with food lures, but the skills that she learned from positive (food reward) OB classes translated very well to everyday situations.

Lucia


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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-04-2009, 08:38 PM
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Re: Third Way?

Lauri and MRL,

please send a personal E Mail. I hired Chris Bach to evaluate my dog, Timber, and his aggression toward strangers. I demanded Chris, albeit expensive, but not some other person she has trained.

Her conclusions about the dog sounded great, but they did not work, and I tend to think made him even more aggressive.

So on Wednesday we are beginning to work with a trainer that works with all breeds, but also has trained German Shepherds for our police department.

Clearly, I would not recommend her.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-04-2009, 10:14 PM
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Re: Third Way?

Quote:
Quote: Lauri and MRL,
please send a personal E Mail.
To who? About what?




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Miss Osin Blue Wildhaus NA NAJ NF

"Nothing new can come into your life unless you are grateful for what you already have. ~ "--- Michael Bernhard, gratitude
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-05-2009, 02:57 PM
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Re: Third Way?

"to who, about what." I thought this was obvious, but about my expereince with Chris Bach.

Lou Castle asked in another post why we sometimes say we would only respond via personal E Mail.

The reasons, and only very few follow:

Chris Bach did not do as well a job as I anticipated with my dog. However, all dogs are different, so perhaps her methods are 95 percent effective. There is no reason to further elaborate on an Internet post; however, if someone is thinking of hiring Chris or thinks she is god's gift to dogs, I would be willing to tell them what happened with Timber.

Another example, I do rescue, and when we take a dog I get opinions from all sides on how to handle the dog, despite the fact that no one else volunteered to rehab some of my rescues, which now includes three this year from the urgent rescue section. I also tend to be direct in my responses as some know, and have been banned for expressing my opinion.

The advice I got from more then one person was when it comes to differing opinions, just communicate via personal E Mail with the folks that in the case of Bella have helped the dog. And regarding Chris Bach, because of a not so good and expensive experience.
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