Anyone else annoyed by Leerburg (Ed Frawley)? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-07-2008, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
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Anyone else annoyed by Leerburg (Ed Frawley)?

I like that he is spreading the word on clicker training under the alias of Leerburg 'Marker Training', but annoyed that he seems to be exploiting it a little too quickly after bad mouthing it for so long, in regards to his videos on 'Marker Training' that he is now marketing.
Anyone else care have an opinion on Frawley?

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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-07-2008, 07:02 PM
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Re: Anyone else annoyed by Leerburg (Ed Frawley)?

I like Ed's products and website, if you're looking for warm fuzzies and cutesy dialog on his website you'll be disappointed. Ed was talking about marker training years ago and took no issue with it. What he takes exception to is faddish training and positive training only methods. I've found most the people who are most vocal about Ed are disturbed or they are envious of his commercial success of his website and videos.
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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-07-2008, 07:09 PM
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Re: Anyone else annoyed by Leerburg (Ed Frawley)?

I think he has a lot of good useful information, just like a lot of people. You do not have to agree with everything. Just a matter of taking what applies to your situation. If he has found the "marker training" has its place, good for him! I think the term marker refers more to a word then an actual clicker (I could be off base though) I use the word "yes" instead of a clicker, never could get that to work just right. I think the sign of a good trainer is the ability to change the way you do things.
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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-07-2008, 07:15 PM
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Re: Anyone else annoyed by Leerburg (Ed Frawley)?

Some of his info I really like and some I don't agree with. But regardless of my opinion, he has tons of followers.

Quote:
Quote: exploiting it a little too quickly after bad mouthing it for so long, in regards to his videos on 'Marker Training'
I also find it interesting if he's got a new video based on marker training. But think it's a good thing cause it shows that he can change his mind about training methods (even if it takes awhile ). And ANYONE that's a proponent of positive based training (whether you call it clicker training or use a clicker) is a good thing!!!!



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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-07-2008, 07:45 PM
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Re: Anyone else annoyed by Leerburg (Ed Frawley)?

We bought the video and it's very good (there were some things I disagreed with, for instance, negative reinforcement -- with "no")

He states in the video that he was a huge opponent and that he was totally wrong and it was all due to ignorance on his part.

Gives credit to a lot of people there who converted him.

There is also a very touching segment there where he talks about the new/positive school and the old/compulsion school and where he apologies and expresses his regrets about hurting the dogs in the name of training!

Overall, I really liked how he presented the material and the key messages in the video!

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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-07-2008, 07:49 PM
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Re: Anyone else annoyed by Leerburg (Ed Frawley)?

Quote:
Quote:He states in the video that he was a huge opponent and that he was totally wrong and it was all due to ignorance on his part.

Gives credit to a lot of people there who converted him.

There is also a very touching segment there where he talks about the new/positive school and the old/compulsion school and where he apologies and expresses his regrets about hurting the dogs in the name of training!
And I say GOOD FOR HIM! Think we shows we all can be a bit more open minded when it comes to new methods and styles of training.




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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-07-2008, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Anyone else annoyed by Leerburg (Ed Frawley)?

Quote:
Originally Posted By: caviewWe bought the video and it's very good (there were some things I disagreed with, for instance, negative reinforcement -- with "no")

He states in the video that he was a huge opponent and that he was totally wrong and it was all due to ignorance on his part.

Gives credit to a lot of people there who converted him.

There is also a very touching segment there where he talks about the new/positive school and the old/compulsion school and where he apologies and expresses his regrets about hurting the dogs in the name of training!

Overall, I really liked how he presented the material and the key messages in the video!

Tanya
Tanya,

Thanks for your reply! I guess I should watch the video! It definitely is impressive that he talks about regretting using compulsion training.
I don't think that because someone disagrees with him they are jealous, etc. though. And it looks like he is on the fad train now with clicker training, which is a good thing!

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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-07-2008, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Anyone else annoyed by Leerburg (Ed Frawley)?

Quote:
Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLeeSome of his info I really like and some I don't agree with. But regardless of my opinion, he has tons of followers.

Quote:
Quote: exploiting it a little too quickly after bad mouthing it for so long, in regards to his videos on 'Marker Training'
I also find it interesting if he's got a new video based on marker training. But think it's a good thing cause it shows that he can change his mind about training methods (even if it takes awhile ). And ANYONE that's a proponent of positive based training (whether you call it clicker training or use a clicker) is a good thing!!!!
Agreed! Hopefully his followers get into positive training! That is definitely a plus to his videos. I guess my annoyance just comes from people following some of his "old" stuff. Like not letting anyone pet your puppy, (which I know has been discussed enough times on this forum) but I went to see a dog today that was raised by a guy doing exactly this wanting his GSD he bought to be a Schutzhund, bought him from a breeder at 8 weeks, and by the time he was 4 months, rehomed him because he decided he didn't have enough time. So now the new family has had him 2 months and he barks at all strangers, and it is obviously fear driven. He barks and runs away, but did snip at my husband. I got him to take treats and let me pet him, but he was much better with his family, including their 4 year old son who he is very good with.
He hasn't been socialized like he needs to be because his new family seems to not have enough time/experience for him. They have good intentions, but he is outside alone with an underground electric fence, and only comes inside to sleep in the garage.
So we went to see him today, looking for a new dog for our inlaws, and obviously he was not a good match. I wish I didn't have 3 already or I would have brought him home. I think he would do well in an experienced home with some training and a lot of positive socializing.
I guess that just prompted me to look at the Leerburg website since the original owner was a "Follower" of Frawleys. But I guess everyone is ultimately responsible for their own actions really.
Sorry for the rant! Just bummed. If anyone is interested in a 6 month male supposed Czech line pup with some fear issues send me a pm!

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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-07-2008, 09:53 PM
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Re: Anyone else annoyed by Leerburg (Ed Frawley)?

I'm not fond of Frawley, but maybe he's changed from his old "make the dog submit" methods. I hope so.

I haven't checked recently, but he had a page on his site about chows and how terrible they were - and how you should train them with a prong or shock collar because they were vicious animals. In one part he talked about "helicoptering" them around at the end of a leash. When someone is so blind about a particular breed, it just sets of many red flags about his abilities as a trainer. I don't have problems training chows. And I don't automatically classify a dog as vicious because of the breed.

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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-07-2008, 09:58 PM
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Re: Anyone else annoyed by Leerburg (Ed Frawley)?

Quote:
Originally Posted By: MaxGunnarI like Ed's products and website, if you're looking for warm fuzzies and cutesy dialog on his website you'll be disappointed. Ed was talking about marker training years ago and took no issue with it. What he takes exception to is faddish training and positive training only methods. I've found most the people who are most vocal about Ed are disturbed or they are envious of his commercial success of his website and videos.
Oh, and I find this to be ridiculous. People object to methods that are harsh, and that has nothing to do with being disturbed or envious. I SHOULD be bothered by someone who promotes harsh training techniques! It disturbs me that others aren't. And he DID make fun of positive methods in his page on chows. He mocked the woman on the radio who promotes positive training.

It's always been sad to me that he has such a following. While I'm sure he's got an occasional item on his website that is valid and helpful, overall he has been a blight on dog training (in my opinion). I truly do hope he's seen the light and taken a step out of the muck. It's about time. And I hope his followers see the light too, and realize that all that time that they spent thinking of him as "wonder-trainer" was wrong.

The ends do NOT always justify the means.

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