Training Methods, (mine and hers!) - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-28-2008, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Training Methods, (mine and hers!)

Aloha, all. I have a few questions and comments, please advise.

1: Rasa is a total Jeckel/Hyde. During the day she is everyones friend, but as soon as it becomes dark, she goes into an alert/business mode. This morning she barked at a cat and I scolded her for it. So does she think it is not OK to bark or does she think "no need to bark at cats".
What message am I sending her?

2: Along the jecke/hyde lines, one worker of mine that she really likes and is very friendly and sometimes follows him, (I was almost jelous of him) but this morning he came in at dusk and she growled and barked and stayed alert by my side until the sun came up then she was all friendly to him again. Do you think this was trained into her, or is instinct? And I am the one who needs the training?

3: I assume I should not praise or scold for an action, unless at the time of the incident? Us humans have memory of the incident for a period, dogs start a clean slate and go forward?

4: The training for potty training would be.... POTTY! GoodGirl? during the deed?

5: I do not allow anyone to feed her or throw balls for her.

6: She has the run of the place 24/7. (it is setup as a large public office and I have a 8x8 private bedroom, and 2 acre gravel yard so it is not a traditional house). no cage or off limit areas really.

Comments?

It's off to the Vets now.

thanks
Frank
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-01-2008, 08:33 PM
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Re: Training Methods, (mine and hers!)

Well she is probably thinking that its bad to bark because she is getting scolded. i have the same problem and I'm not sure what to do. Do I want to scold her for barking or not do anything(she's protecting, right???)???? So I am in the same boat. we are going to
obedience school for her. maybe you could do that.
You should say good girl when she is doing the action(sit stay come ect. or pottying) so she does it and immediatly you say good girl.You really should let others interact with her(play with her, pet her, give her treats) because that way you are socializing her. That is extremly important with any puppy. very, very important.
if you don't socialize when she is an adult she will be very mean to strangers and won't be willing to obey. Socializing puppies is mandatory!
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-01-2008, 09:57 PM
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Re: Training Methods, (mine and hers!)

Instead of scolding the barking, teach her the quiet command. I use peanut butter. While sitting quietly with her use the command "quiet" and put a little peanut butter on the roof of her mouth. While she licks....um yum yum tell her "good quiet" and praise her. Then catch her at the start of a bark when she is not too seriously into it and use the quiet command, use the peanut butter on the roof of her mouth immediately she stops barking with "good quiet" and praise. She will quickly learn that to bark is ok but to stop barking on command ahhh thats wonderful.

Remember that barking releases endorphines so it is a self gratifying behaviour, your "treat" to stop barking on command needs to be better that the self reward she gets by continuing to bark.

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-01-2008, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Training Methods, (mine and hers!)

Aloha, she definitely has the socializing skills down pat. So far I am pleased with the growth and trust bonding that I see happening every day. (only day 9 with Rasa who is 4 yrs old)

1: I praise her barking and then calm her with "its OK" good girl. But I will start using "Quiet instead of It's OK"). When she starts barking (if not a very serious bark) she turns to me for approval and if I "good girl and its OK" she will stop and hang out in an super attentive mode. But recently there has been very loud and close aerial fireworks and that really sets her off.

2: I am making a bit of progress with her attitude sometimes when she acts deaf, dumb and blind and totally ignores me. I just turn away and ignore her and do not let her use the elevator to come upstairs and she climbs the stairs. I have proven that she knows tons of commands, so I do not let her get away with ignoring me anymore. But it also may be a respect issue that she has for me which seems to be getting stronger daily. Time will tell....trying not to make any mistakes.

frank

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-01-2008, 10:20 PM
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Re: Training Methods, (mine and hers!)

scolding for barking just sounds to the dog like you are joining in and taking over the barking.

I was told to teach to bark on command - which gets across the idea that you determine when to bark - then teach quiet.

I like the idea of rewarding the barking (good bark thank you) and letting them know that's enough.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-01-2008, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Training Methods, (mine and hers!)

Quote:
Originally Posted By: middleofnowherescolding for barking just sounds to the dog like you are joining in and taking over the barking.

I was told to teach to bark on command - which gets across the idea that you determine when to bark - then teach quiet.

I like the idea of rewarding the barking (good bark thank you) and letting them know that's enough.
"Teach to bark on command". you mean without any threats? (human, cat, fireworks). So start that with "Bark" when she naturally going to bark? How long did it take you? Aren't natural instincts harder to command ("Bark, Poo") harder to do than the "stay and sit ones"

thanks
frank
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 10:41 AM
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Only aggressive at night?

For me, it's not to much about what my dog's start barking at. Because they have no sense at all (like any untrained protection dog) and are as likely to bark at my cat, a squirrel, a deer, a mass murderer.

What's more important to me is when I go to look at what they are barking at, I tell them calmly to 'knock it off' and expect them to do so.

In the beginning this maybe done by just working my obedience stuff so I hear a bark (and IMMEDIATELY go to see what's up) make sure it's ok and then give a 'come' command while running to the treat jar. So we are now 1) away from what made them bark. 2) they stopped barking cause we are headed for the treat jar 3) getting rewarded for something I did want (the come)

The day/night thing may be a fear issue for your puppy. Not that they become more intelligent at night for real threats (um, your worker friend she KNOWS and likes shows the problem) but just cause they can't see as well things seem more scary so the REACT rather than thinking or looking to you for input. This is NOT GOOD and you are right to be concerned.

My pups show this 'dark' thing initially by not wanting to poo/pee in my yard outside of the lit area. Nice cause I know they won't run off at night, but I don't want them to really be afraid either. MY reactions, MY behavior and how I act are key. If I slowly walk into the darker area and we play then go into the house, they tend to start getting over it as they grow.

Very important to socialize your puppy and take it to dog classes at this time. This way they learn to look to you, rely on you, key from you, and you are taking on the calm quiet leadership role that helps them the best. It's not up to my dog to be startled and 'decide' to over react when someone comes near. It IS up to them to learn to look to me when someone comes near and if I am calm and say it's ok..............then it is. No big deal just another night out with mom.

Be nice if you've been on tons of car rides weekly. New sights, new sounds, new smells. Your dog has then been out of the car for walks in these new places. Day and night visits with family, friends and strangers. Dog classes!

Socialization must be in new places. Training has to be in new places.




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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-02-2008, 04:37 PM
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Re: Only aggressive at night?

Quote:
Quote:
I like the idea of rewarding the barking (good bark thank you) and letting them know that's enough.
That's what I do. I start it when my dogs bark at noises outside of the house. I look out the window (because maybe there is a masked intruder with a machete out there), and they watch me do this. Then in a bright cheerful voice I say "I've got it. Thank you."

I don't bark at them. My tone of voice is very different than theirs. But they can see that I've checked things out. I'm the leader. They can alert. But I'm the one that ultimately decides if there's a threat. And it's amazing how quickly they settle down.

And yes, I do this when my dog barks in the middle of the night (what if it's the intruder with the machete?). Eventually, my pup learns to discern regular noises from unusual noises, and the only time they bark is when something very odd is going on outside.

Plus pretty quickly, he learns that "I've got it" means that I have everything under control, even if it means that there's someone nearby that he doesn't particularly like the looks of. As he gets older and you take him different places, you will likely encounter people that he isn't familiar with. So he needs to learn to trust your judgement.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-03-2008, 03:58 AM
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Re: Training Methods, (mine and hers!)

[quote=adas
"Teach to bark on command". you mean without any threats? (human, cat, fireworks). So start that with "Bark" when she naturally going to bark? How long did it take you? Aren't natural instincts harder to command ("Bark, Poo") harder to do than the "stay and sit ones"
[/quote]

It's the same principal as clicker training for sit or down.

The last puppy was a shoe-in. I used a rake to clean the horse turnout -- and she would bark and leap at the rake. Just name and reward the behavior. Didn't take long at all. (I only do the name & reward a couple of times at once - you don't want the dog to stop barking at the trigger. ) She got it within a week.

I used the command "bark" and "gib laut" - she'll respond to either but we've gone to the german one for the most part - it just rolls off the tongue easier.

"Clicker" type training gets the results for me fast and more enthusiastically than other methods.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-08-2008, 01:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Training Methods, (mine and hers!)

Quote:
Quote:It's the same principal as clicker training for sit or down.
The last puppy was a shoe-in. I used a rake to clean the horse turnout -- and she would bark and leap at the rake. Just name and reward the behavior. Didn't take long at all. (I only do the name & reward a couple of times at once - you don't want the dog to stop barking at the trigger. ) She got it within a week.

I used the command "bark" and "gib laut" - she'll respond to either but we've gone to the german one for the most part - it just rolls off the tongue easier.

"Clicker" type training gets the results for me fast and more enthusiastically than other methods.
So it seems basic training is finding an action that the dog is doing anyway and naming it and reward/praising every time she does it? Then when you say the command she will do it even though she did not initiate it. Such as if the dog is going downstairs, you say "downstairs, good girl" every time she goes downstairs?

thanks
Frank
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