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post #1 of 158 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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Question E collar question

Hey,
I just recently picked up a dogtra e collar for our dog, he's over a year old now and we've been training with a long biothane line hiking for a while now. He has been perfect for a few months now with recalls under serious distractions like other dogs, people, deer, rabbits, etc. I feel he is ready to be off leash and reliable and I want to give him more freedom, the long line tangles and trips me up a lot and we often travel to places with rocky terrain where I need my hands to climb; which is why I bought the e collar. However, I didn't feel comfortable reading the lou castle pamphlet and training by myself so i'm working with an experienced GSD trainer with the e collar for the first time this week (the trainer will be teaching me how to properly use the e collar) so I do it right. I have never used an e collar before and I want to know what to expect with this first training "lesson". What do they typically do to "train" the dog with the e collar for off leash work? Here is my concern... my husband and I tried the dogtra e collar on ourselves and beyond #39 we thought it was seriously painful... we couldn't tolerate it beyond that point let alone fathom cranking it all the way up to #127! When they are first training the dog with an e collar do they ever crank it up that high?... I don't feel right putting my dog through pain that my husband and I can not even tolerate.... the buzz feature and low intensity stimuli I am all for. My goal is for this collar to effectively act like an invisible leash so he can be safe on our hikes without the hassle of dealing with a leash. I want it to act as an emergency back up system in case if his obedience fails which I feel would be extremely rare as it is with his current maturity level.
Thanks for the help
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post #2 of 158 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 05:02 PM
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I use the Sportdog Field Trainer. Its a wonderful communication tool at 500 yards with it's buzzes and tones. I have heard that lots of those collars do not go up to as high as the settings say. Of course they are only used for corrections when the dog definitely KNOWS the command and is blowing you off. The strength of the stim needed to get their attention is based on how excited and in drive they are. You want them to veer off of crittering while they are just started, such as trotting or walking toward in a hyped up fashion, even better, when just looking, with a verbal NO. If they have started off running hard right toward the road then higher voltage is needed because they are mind blowing excited. Don't let them go there. Still, in my opinion since there are wild boars here, it better to have and not need than need and not have. Your trainer will teach you. Its all about timing. You'll get used to it. Your dog impresses me as a soft GSD, you won't need higher settings I bet.

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Last edited by Nurse Bishop; 02-24-2018 at 05:06 PM.
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post #3 of 158 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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I use the Sportdog Field Trainer. Its a wonderful communication tool at 500 yards with it's buzzes and tones. I have heard that lots of those collars do not go up to as high as the settings say. Of course they are only used for corrections when the dog definitely KNOWS the command and is blowing you off. The strength of the stim needed to get their attention is based on how excited and in drive they are. You want them to veer off of crittering while they are just started, such as trotting or walking toward in a hyped up fashion, even better, when just looking, with a verbal NO. If they have started off running hard right toward the road then higher voltage is needed because they are mind blowing excited. Don't let them go there. Still, in my opinion since there are wild boars here, it better to have and not need than need and not have. Your trainer will teach you. Its all about timing. You'll get used to it. Your dog impresses me as a soft GSD, you won't need higher settings I bet.
Thank you Nurse, that makes a lot of sense very similar to how I train with the leash. Whenever I see the ears prick forward on the trail I watch carefully and react if need be. I'm just wondering if there's a standard practice trainers use when first introducing the e collar of cranking it up all the way to make an impression or something crazy like that... I wish the dogtra I got had tones, I was very disappointed to find out it didn't but my trainer must have felt it wasn't necessary. This is all so new to me. He really is a "soft" dog, the tone of my voice is usually enough of a correction for him an very rarely and actual leash correction.

SQUIRREL!
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post #4 of 158 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 05:11 PM
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First of all, have him wear it for 2 weeks before you even use it. This way he may not associate the stim with the collar. Only have him wear it when you are out and about with him as continuous wear can cause sores from the pressure of the poles. Lou Castle has a good handout on how to use it. There is plenty of info here on this forum about it.
The only reason I use the Ecollar is to prevent her from chasing wild life.
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post #5 of 158 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfTheShepherd View Post
Hey,
I just recently picked up a dogtra e collar for our dog, he's over a year old now and we've been training with a long biothane line hiking for a while now. He has been perfect for a few months now with recalls under serious distractions like other dogs, people, deer, rabbits, etc. I feel he is ready to be off leash and reliable and I want to give him more freedom, the long line tangles and trips me up a lot and we often travel to places with rocky terrain where I need my hands to climb; which is why I bought the e collar. However, I didn't feel comfortable reading the lou castle pamphlet and training by myself so i'm working with an experienced GSD trainer with the e collar for the first time this week (the trainer will be teaching me how to properly use the e collar) so I do it right. I have never used an e collar before and I want to know what to expect with this first training "lesson". What do they typically do to "train" the dog with the e collar for off leash work? Here is my concern... my husband and I tried the dogtra e collar on ourselves and beyond #39 we thought it was seriously painful... we couldn't tolerate it beyond that point let alone fathom cranking it all the way up to #127! When they are first training the dog with an e collar do they ever crank it up that high?... I don't feel right putting my dog through pain that my husband and I can not even tolerate.... the buzz feature and low intensity stimuli I am all for. My goal is for this collar to effectively act like an invisible leash so he can be safe on our hikes without the hassle of dealing with a leash. I want it to act as an emergency back up system in case if his obedience fails which I feel would be extremely rare as it is with his current maturity level.
Thanks for the help
He is so cute. #1, ask your trainer what to expect, they should be able to explain to you what typically happens during the first few sessions and what their process is with the e collar. They all probably do it slightly differently depending on the application. I think it's probably important to ask your trainer how they use the e collar anyway because they don't all do it the same and you probably want to be sure like everything else, you are choosing a trainer who will use the e collar the way you want to use the e collar.

There is no reason to be doing anything on a 127 to your dog in the first few sessions, maybe ever. My boy's been on E Collar for over a year and I've never dreamed of cranking him to to the top. When I start a dog, and when I have seen other people start a dog, step 1 is to find the level they can feel as evidenced by an ear twitch or a look or scratch. Then get to work explaining what it means. There may be a small amount of stress but sometimes almost none, depending on the dog and the skill of person operating the collar. The trainer should be able to help the dog through any stress.

Be sure the trainer shows you how to put the collar on snug with good contact and scrub the contact points in. You might consider a bungee collar and longer contact points because of the hair. I think one of the biggest issues people have at first is inconsistent contact.

For reference, all dogs are different but my boy could perceive a 4 or 5 on a Dogtra 1900 although one he got over the novelty and when out into the world we did foundation work on a 15, which was not startling or upsetting to him.

My girl also could perceive a 4 and did her foundation work on an 8.

My boy's emergency break oh crap deer number is 35. (1900) My 3 shepherds have pretty much been in that range-- teens for lower intensity stuff and 30s for higher intensity stuff. My old male went higher sometimes when he wanted to kill something.

I know other dogs who have never gone over number 10 on a 280 which is a lower powered unit. It's whatever # the dog says is right reading how they respond

Ask your trainer, they might even have video of starting other dogs so you can see how they do it?
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post #6 of 158 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 05:18 PM
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" I'm just wondering if there's a standard practice trainers use when first introducing the e collar of cranking it up all the way to make an impression or something crazy like that... "

No. If your trainer thought this was a good idea I'd pack my dog up real quick and go find another trainer.

I do use the vibe on dogtra but I think it is pretty unpopular with most people.
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post #7 of 158 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wolfy dog View Post
First of all, have him wear it for 2 weeks before you even use it. This way he may not associate the stim with the collar. Only have him wear it when you are out and about with him as continuous wear can cause sores from the pressure of the poles. Lou Castle has a good handout on how to use it. There is plenty of info here on this forum about it.
The only reason I use the Ecollar is to prevent her from chasing wild life.
Ah jeez that's such a good point I didn't even think about... same thing we did with the prong collar Do you think 4 days wearing it without stimuli would be sufficient? Our appointment with the trainer is Wednesday and he's very busy it seems so I'm not keen on rescheduling. That's exactly my reason for using it too, I don't plan on using a e collar for any other reasons he has no bad habits.
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post #8 of 158 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by GandalfTheShepherd View Post
Thank you Nurse, that makes a lot of sense very similar to how I train with the leash. Whenever I see the ears prick forward on the trail I watch carefully and react if need be. I'm just wondering if there's a standard practice trainers use when first introducing the e collar of cranking it up all the way to make an impression or something crazy like that... I wish the dogtra I got had tones, I was very disappointed to find out it didn't but my trainer must have felt it wasn't necessary. This is all so new to me. He really is a "soft" dog, the tone of my voice is usually enough of a correction for him an very rarely and actual leash correction.
Oh no, no 'cranking it up' to start with. Could you send it back and get the one with tones? For your very soft dog probably the just vibration as a warning. If that doesn't work a size 1 correction. After that a vibration will feel like a size 1 correction. I think 4 days of wearing will be OK. But still, he has to wear it all day and you move the box on the collar around every 2 hours.
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All creatures great and small;
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He made and loveth All.

Last edited by Nurse Bishop; 02-24-2018 at 05:39 PM.
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post #9 of 158 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 05:36 PM
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At first you want to see what level stim your dog acknowledges that he felt it. They will usually show this by ducking their head a little and licking their lips. Or like Cowgirl said an ear twitch. You don't want to make them yelp. That is too high for the situation and not a good learning zone. Gosh he's a pretty dog
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He prayeth well who loveth well
Both man and bird and beast;
He prayeth best who loveth best
All creatures great and small;
For the dear God who loveth us,
He made and loveth All.

Last edited by Nurse Bishop; 02-24-2018 at 05:40 PM.
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post #10 of 158 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thecowboysgirl View Post
He is so cute. #1, ask your trainer what to expect, they should be able to explain to you what typically happens during the first few sessions and what their process is with the e collar. They all probably do it slightly differently depending on the application. I think it's probably important to ask your trainer how they use the e collar anyway because they don't all do it the same and you probably want to be sure like everything else, you are choosing a trainer who will use the e collar the way you want to use the e collar.

There is no reason to be doing anything on a 127 to your dog in the first few sessions, maybe ever. My boy's been on E Collar for over a year and I've never dreamed of cranking him to to the top. When I start a dog, and when I have seen other people start a dog, step 1 is to find the level they can feel as evidenced by an ear twitch or a look or scratch. Then get to work explaining what it means. There may be a small amount of stress but sometimes almost none, depending on the dog and the skill of person operating the collar. The trainer should be able to help the dog through any stress.

Be sure the trainer shows you how to put the collar on snug with good contact and scrub the contact points in. You might consider a bungee collar and longer contact points because of the hair. I think one of the biggest issues people have at first is inconsistent contact.

For reference, all dogs are different but my boy could perceive a 4 or 5 on a Dogtra 1900 although one he got over the novelty and when out into the world we did foundation work on a 15, which was not startling or upsetting to him.

My girl also could perceive a 4 and did her foundation work on an 8.

My boy's emergency break oh crap deer number is 35. (1900) My 3 shepherds have pretty much been in that range-- teens for lower intensity stuff and 30s for higher intensity stuff. My old male went higher sometimes when he wanted to kill something.

I know other dogs who have never gone over number 10 on a 280 which is a lower powered unit. It's whatever # the dog says is right reading how they respond

Ask your trainer, they might even have video of starting other dogs so you can see how they do it?
Thank you so much for that explanation cowboys, always appreciate your input! That's incredible your dogs felt a #4, my husband and I couldn't lol! We bought the Dogtra 1900 I believe too, can you buy the longer probes separately and install them on the standard collar or will we need to buy a different collar?
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