Thoughts on Personal Protection Training? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
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Thoughts on Personal Protection Training?

All,

I have an 8 month old DDR shepherd who is finally starting to lose the puppy and settle into his adult brain. (well, sometimes anyway ) We chose DDR specifically for the protection aspect (and the intimidating look) and the breeder advised that these dogs really aren't mature enough for PPD training until at least 7 months - 1 year, which I can totally understand and agree with. Now that he finally has an attention span, the obedience training is kicking in full force and he's a gem to work with. He learns super fast and is pretty eager to please. I figure in another 2-3 months he will be where I want him to be obedience wise, and once we get there I'm considering whether I want to take that further.

He does great with the family now but also has a "serious" mode in that he will go on patrol or alert with things he doesn't know - but doesn't generally freak out. We were expecting this to some extent but seeing it in action is pretty inspiring. He just makes you feel safe He is fairly polite on a leash now although he still has some reactivity to other dogs, but that is improving.

Would PPD strengthen and hone those protective instincts that are already there? Are there negatives? Has anyone gone through this training with their dog and do you feel it was beneficial (to you, the dog, family etc)?
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 06:53 PM
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Just be aware who you're dealing with. A lot of personal protection trainers will take a weak dog throw him into defense and tell you he's a natural. By the time you get done you have a liability not a PP dog. **** if they don't know what they're doing they can ruin a good dog.

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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by NewtoK9 View Post
All,

I have an 8 month old DDR shepherd who is finally starting to lose the puppy and settle into his adult brain. (well, sometimes anyway [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.germanshepherds.com//forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG] ) We chose DDR specifically for the protection aspect (and the intimidating look) and the breeder advised that these dogs really aren't mature enough for PPD training until at least 7 months - 1 year, which I can totally understand and agree with. Now that he finally has an attention span, the obedience training is kicking in full force and he's a gem to work with. He learns super fast and is pretty eager to please. I figure in another 2-3 months he will be where I want him to be obedience wise, and once we get there I'm considering whether I want to take that further.

He does great with the family now but also has a "serious" mode in that he will go on patrol or alert with things he doesn't know - but doesn't generally freak out. We were expecting this to some extent but seeing it in action is pretty inspiring. He just makes you feel safe [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.germanshepherds.com//forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] He is fairly polite on a leash now although he still has some reactivity to other dogs, but that is improving.

Would PPD strengthen and hone those protective instincts that are already there? Are there negatives? Has anyone gone through this training with their dog and do you feel it was beneficial (to you, the dog, family etc)?
do you have a pedigree to share?
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 08:07 AM
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If he’s true DDR dog, I️ wouldn’t even think about Protection training until 2-3 years of age. Let him grow up.
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback. I have heard folks say the DDR dogs are slower to mature. I can see this...this dog has definitely come with a learning curve that research just can't prepare you for. We're learning as we go so going slow is a good thing! It feels like such a relief to be out of the bitey face stage, though. He is pretty much fearless - you can challenge him and he will challenge right back, and guns, fireworks, cars, big trucks, sirens, birds, kids, cats, bikes, joggers, etc...very little except other dogs gets him excited.

Really, I just want to explore options and see what the potential is. It may be that PPD training is not right for either of us, I don't know. My goal is not to have a scary dog no one can touch but rather a companion dog that will do what needs doing in the moment. I wouldn't get a gun for self-defense and not practice with it, so it seems to make sense to want to hone some of those protective aspects.

Looking at pedigrees makes me a bit cross-eyed, to be honest. This breeder seems to have some of his dogs in PDB and some not. I don't know why that is - unless maybe he is waiting to see what kinds of pups their breedings produce before registering them? Or maybe it just takes awhile? When I was researching the breeding it seemed to me that the pedigrees both have dogs with strong working lines, solid health and stable temperments. What else should I be looking at in those lines to understand the protection aspects better?

I have also met both my dog's parents. The dam is confident and approachable. Completely at ease around kids, very laid back. The sire was all business. He was originally sold to a family as a companion dog and was then returned to the breeder around 2 or 3 yrs old when the owners divorced. The breeder said he had been started on PPD training when the owners relinquished him and he was going to continue working with him. At this point, I would say my boy has an even balance between those personalities, but based on what I'm hearing it seems like I may not really know that until he's more mature.


For pedigrees, this is what I know:
Mom is out of Adalrick Von Jagermeister and Gigante's Notty Monkey
Adalrick Von Jagermeister
Search - Gigante's Notty monkey

Dad is out of Mein Von Schone Stadt and Adala Von Jagermeister
Mein von Schone Stadt
Adala Von Jagermeister

Last edited by NewtoK9; 11-08-2017 at 05:23 PM.
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 07:26 PM
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This breeder seems to have some of his dogs in PDB and some not. I don't know why that is - unless maybe he is waiting to see what kinds of pups their breedings produce before registering them?

The PDB is NOT an official registry. It is strictly a volunteer registry, in which dog owners can enter their own dogs, and find out about their pedigrees. It is run and maintained by volunteers. Needless to say, it is far from complete. The owner of the database has several moderators who try their best to make sure the information entered is accurate.

However, it's a great alternative to having to shell out your hard-earned money to AKC (or whatever other registry your dog is with) to get this information!

Yes, DDR dogs mature late.
Yes, they have a reputation for being more serious and being able to protect for real. I saw on another dog board recently where someone with a dog from DDR lines came home to find the front entrance to their house liberally smeared with blood. The dog was unharmed, but also covered in blood. She had foiled a break-in while her owners were out.

They may not be the best sport dogs, though (see link I sent you.)
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Last edited by Sunsilver; 11-08-2017 at 07:31 PM.
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 08:23 PM
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I only clicked on the adalrick von jagermeister link and it looks like there's some show dogs in there. I only guess this based on the names such as "war cry's crystal". A quick search for von jagermeister brings you to a site for a kennel called von jagermeister haus who says her dogs help police find and hold armed robbers with no training and that they've been in movies. The website for war cry german shepherds also points out the movies their dogs have been in and lists their breeding accomplishments. I don't recall exactly but they've only had like 3 sch 1 and 2 sch 2/3 ea. Not much working accomplishment for someone breeding since 1986. But they do have a long list of movies/tv shows/commercials that feauture their dogs. All this is to say I think your breeder may be feeding you a line. In all my talks with ddr owners and pedigree experts and the like on here - I've never once heard of someone saying the dog is ready for ppd at 7 months old. My pup is 7 months old and isn't close to ready for ppd training. More along the lines of what youve heard from Cliff earlier. 2-3 years for these dogs to mature.

Who is the breeder? Maybe we can get a better sense of the breeding by knowing who the actual sire and dam are.
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 09:38 PM
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I thought pedigrees for DDR were followed by the sire line. Von Jagermeister is the dam line of Adalrick


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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 09:46 PM
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There's ddr dogs on both dam and sire side. The concerning part is the show dogs in there. No ppd breeder is going to do that and I think the breeder is just feeding him a line. Cdwoodxox had a valuable warning for OP and I think they breezed right over it.
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegooseman90 View Post
I only clicked on the adalrick von jagermeister link and it looks like there's some show dogs in there. I only guess this based on the names such as "war cry's crystal". A quick search for von jagermeister brings you to a site for a kennel called von jagermeister haus who says her dogs help police find and hold armed robbers with no training and that they've been in movies. The website for war cry german shepherds also points out the movies their dogs have been in and lists their breeding accomplishments. I don't recall exactly but they've only had like 3 sch 1 and 2 sch 2/3 ea. Not much working accomplishment for someone breeding since 1986. But they do have a long list of movies/tv shows/commercials that feauture their dogs. All this is to say I think your breeder may be feeding you a line. In all my talks with ddr owners and pedigree experts and the like on here - I've never once heard of someone saying the dog is ready for ppd at 7 months old. My pup is 7 months old and isn't close to ready for ppd training. More along the lines of what youve heard from Cliff earlier. 2-3 years for these dogs to mature.

Who is the breeder? Maybe we can get a better sense of the breeding by knowing who the actual sire and dam are.
The breeder is JD Gigante of Gigante's K9. The sire is Ranger and the Dam, Kira. Here's a link to the pairing with (maybe?) more info. Gigante K9 Breeding Ranger & Kira 2017

Quote:
Yes, they have a reputation for being more serious and being able to protect for real. I saw on another dog board recently where someone with a dog from DDR lines came home to find the front entrance to their house liberally smeared with blood. The dog was unharmed, but also covered in blood. She had foiled a break-in while her owners were out.

They may not be the best sport dogs, though (see link I sent you.)
Thanks, Sunsilver. I did read the link and there was some helpful info there. It was unfortunate that the person in that link decided to relinquish their dog but at least they understood their limitations. That's exactly what we're trying to do here too and the idea of "Protect for real" - and the random intruder situation you describe - is what I am interested in. Maybe I don't need to train that because these dogs have a built-in drive for that. Or maybe some of them do and some of them don't and you just don't know until you're faced with that situation. And as cdwoodcox pointed out I don't want to ruin my dog by forcing him into training for something he's not suited for. But I'd like to know either way - if he is going to back down in a fight and I'm expecting him to help defend me or my family, that seems like an important thing to be aware of, no?

From what I'm hearing it sounds like I shouldn't really take any approach in PPD training for another year or two and then maybe solicit a couple of experienced trainers to evaluate his abilities before starting any training program?
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