Bonkers (The training tool): Is my dog defective or something??? - Page 13 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #121 of 164 (permalink) Old 08-06-2017, 08:33 PM
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is worth mentioning. As said, there are great methods for teaching a dog not to nuzzle, touch or nibble a hand with food in it. Don't say a word to the dog just have him near you. Put food in hand. Closed hand. Let dog sniff,nuzzle all he wants.dont open hand. As soon as he stops even for a second, open hand and let him take the food. Rinse repeat. I think a vid of this method was posted 5 yrs ago

my boy understood the concept within 5 mins.. most probably would. Practice off and on for three days and not only did you teach him what not to do but you did it in a way that caused him to think and work the problem out himself which builds confidence. You also are teaching self discipline because once he gets the concept, he waits patiently until the hand is open.

Much better than whacking a dog over the head for inquisitively nudging a hand with food in it.
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post #122 of 164 (permalink) Old 08-06-2017, 09:09 PM
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Top monied dog behavioral researchers advocate force free training methods. The top monied dog trainers are using a balanced approach that incorporates positive punishment. Theory vs reality. Researchers get paid to write and publish papers and get grants to do studies. They don't get paid to get results with a dog.

Not saying anything against science but all too often the money is being thrown at people that tell us what we want to hear or at the very least tell us what can get the most attention.

I only ever get involved in these threads because the science behind what Gary does is correct, and often the theory gets bashed because the application of it is crap in his case.
Well I do have to say that even I was stunned when I saw him using the Bonker like a freaking club?? When I first created that thread I did not see him doing that???

I specified how I feel it's best used which is to say "again" Door Bolting, Counter Surfing, Yard Escapees and Dog and Cat issues "assuming, the dog is a cat annoyer and not a Cat Killer! And the yard thing labor intensive, but if you don't wanna go or can't afford an E-Collar then you have no choice if you want to stop it now! Beyond that ... I got nothing.
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post #123 of 164 (permalink) Old 08-06-2017, 09:19 PM
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@Chip18,
I hope that you now realize what a poor training method this is. I also hope that you realize that internet and youtube trainers that do this have a lot to learn. It is a poor technique even for "Door Bolting, Counter Surfing, Yard Escapees" as you mention.

People have choices and E collars are not a tool of last resort. You do not need an E collar or a bonker to train a dog. If you think a bonker is an effective tool for those that can't afford an E-collar, well you need to learn more and go to seminars with people that can actually train dogs.

How it's best used? Is clearly not the way Gary Wilke or Jeff Gellman use it. Expand your horizons and learn from some better people. Those guys are not anyone that I would recommend or endorse.

“Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance”. George Bernard Shaw

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post #124 of 164 (permalink) Old 08-06-2017, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chip18 View Post
Well I do have to say that even I was stunned when I saw him using the Bonker like a freaking club?? When I first created that thread I did not see him doing that???

I specified how I feel it's best used which is to say "again" Door Bolting, Counter Surfing, Yard Escapees and Dog and Cat issues "assuming, the dog is a cat annoyer and not a Cat Killer! And the yard thing labor intensive, but if you don't wanna go or can't afford an E-Collar then you have no choice if you want to stop it now! Beyond that ... I got nothing.
Well... E collars cost less than some towels these days...

$24.99 e collar
https://www.amazon.com/EtekCollar-Tr...e+collar&psc=1

$32.50 Bath Towel
https://www.amazon.com/Turkish-Large...th+sheet&psc=1

I lost the remote to my dogtra and picked up one of those cheapy e collars just to fool around with it and decide if I wanted to replace the dogtra or not... honestly... the cheapo collar works well... 279 reviews and a 4.4 star rating on amazon... looks like others are happy with the collar as well. Maybe not what I would want for intense field work... but for around the house and yard stuff they work.

Not to mention the fact that there are MANY MANY other ways to train a dog to stop counter surfing, door bolting, and cat annoying that do not need either an e collar OR a bonker...

Just sayin'
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post #125 of 164 (permalink) Old 08-06-2017, 09:50 PM
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Well I do have to say that even I was stunned when I saw him using the Bonker like a freaking club?? When I first created that thread I did not see him doing that???

I specified how I feel it's best used which is to say "again" Door Bolting, Counter Surfing, Yard Escapees and Dog and Cat issues "assuming, the dog is a cat annoyer and not a Cat Killer! And the yard thing labor intensive, but if you don't wanna go or can't afford an E-Collar then you have no choice if you want to stop it now! Beyond that ... I got nothing.
Chip, this kind of surprises me as I was under the impression that you have seen at least most of the vids about this. You have posted a lot of links on threads over time and I am pretty sure I have clicked and watched every single one at least once to help me learn. A lot of them I did get useful info that I used to help me and my boy. Some of them I tweeked the method to fit my dog a few I didn't use but learned something from.

I think the most important thing to remember is that as a newbie clicking on links supported by the one who linked it, what most remember is what is on the video. What the person who offered the link says afterwards may or may not sink in.

"If you can't see his soul when you look in his eyes, then you need a seeing-eye dog"
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post #126 of 164 (permalink) Old 08-06-2017, 10:27 PM
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@Chip18,
I hope that you now realize what a poor training method this is. I also hope that you realize that internet and youtube trainers that do this have a lot to learn.
My argument ... is not about me and what I do and recommend??? Bubble Dog and Zero Bite Risk Policy is how I train a dog. And to be fair I stole the term "Bubble Dog" (a dog that needs to be muzzled for a time to be safe out in public) from another member who felt that our dogs should be kept away from the public. It was used as a "Slam" (no pun intended) but I liked it.


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It is a poor technique even for "Door Bolting, Counter Surfing, Yard Escapees" as you mention.
Agree to disagree????

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People have choices and E collars are not a tool of last resort. You do not need an E collar or a bonker to train a dog. If you think a bonker is an effective tool for those that can't afford an E-collar, well you need to learn more and go to seminars with people that can actually train dogs.

How it's best used? Is clearly not the way Gary Wilke or Jeff Gellman use it. Expand your horizons and learn from some better people. Those guys are not anyone that I would recommend or endorse.
I've never said the part in bold??? Apparently people like to "infer that." I have said I'm a SLL "only guy" because of what I do. And I have said that if I get a "Deaf Boxer" I will have no choice but to use an "E-Collar." Because that is the only way I could them safe.

I don't like the hassle of having to grab an E-Collar, the Remote and then my dog. I'm kinda lazy and don't want to change what I do unless "forced to by circumstances!"

Well you know actually ... "Punished by failure on my part" for being uh "Stupid???" Hence and yeah I was kinda "toolish" but your Flashlight advise in my "Dog Attack Thread!"

So yes ... I was kinda "toolish at first" but you know ... I've never seen anyone that gave kinda "advise as to why and how???" Cause ... you know ... people can't see in the dark ... who knew. :

At anyrate ... your flash advise gets seen by others every time anyone views or links to that thread ... so despite the prevailing perception ... I do learn from others.

At anyrate as time on goes sigh despite my intentions I've now added a "Walking Stick and a FlashLight." To midnight walks so I suppose if I get a Boxer then an E-Collar and the remote it is.

At any rate I've never said tools of last resort ... I have said thus far I have not found the need.
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post #127 of 164 (permalink) Old 08-06-2017, 10:41 PM
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I made some comments the other day and she replied to me, "yes, Cooper is afraid but it saves dogs." Then she disabled all comments and dislikes.

,
Tylor Muto ... also has comments disabled some trainers do some traines don't, funny enough I get why "comments are disabled by some."

And yeah he lots of other stuff which I have posted but I like Shelly.
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post #128 of 164 (permalink) Old 08-06-2017, 10:52 PM
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Well... E collars cost less than some towels these days...

$24.99 e collar
https://www.amazon.com/EtekCollar-Tr...e+collar&psc=1

$32.50 Bath Towel
https://www.amazon.com/Turkish-Large...th+sheet&psc=1

I lost the remote to my dogtra and picked up one of those cheapy e collars just to fool around with it and decide if I wanted to replace the dogtra or not... honestly... the cheapo collar works well... 279 reviews and a 4.4 star rating on amazon... looks like others are happy with the collar as well. Maybe not what I would want for intense field work... but for around the house and yard stuff they work.

Not to mention the fact that there are MANY MANY other ways to train a dog to stop counter surfing, door bolting, and cat annoying that do not need either an e collar OR a bonker...

Just sayin'
People that can't train a dog and have a behaviour that they want to stop now are not willing to spend anything. List the Dog on Craigslist charge a rehoming fee, and problem solved. And they make money in the process, there not looking for "Many,Many" solutions ... they don't care.

But you can't ask them because by and large they don't do stuff like this.
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post #129 of 164 (permalink) Old 08-06-2017, 11:18 PM
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Some truth to that. I usually don't bother giving any kind of training advice to anyone, even when they ask for it, unless I am being paid for that information. It is a waste of time. People do not value advice unless they have to pay for it. If you want a well trained dog pass it over I'll train it and then train you to handle it. Expecting the person who created a problem with a dog to fix it is pretty silly. Not saying that it can't happen but it doesn't happen often.
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Last edited by Baillif; 08-06-2017 at 11:28 PM.
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post #130 of 164 (permalink) Old 08-07-2017, 12:24 AM
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Chip, this kind of surprises me as I was under the impression that you have seen at least most of the vids about this. You have posted a lot of links on threads over time and I am pretty sure I have clicked and watched every single one at least once to help me learn. A lot of them I did get useful info that I used to help me and my boy. Some of them I tweeked the method to fit my dog a few I didn't use but learned something from.

I think the most important thing to remember is that as a newbie clicking on links supported by the one who linked it, what most remember is what is on the video. What the person who offered the link says afterwards may or may not sink in.
Oh fair enough ... I pretty much post for "that Guy/Girl."

I know they are out there because I hear from them. And from people that get "me" I've heard "Thank You For Being Different" and online on Boxerforeum I got a thank you for being "Anal."

And over there I got challenged by a Pro (I had no idea any were there) they should have self identified, it would have gone better for them but that's another story. But it worked out well in the long run like uh a year of effort to get them back ...uh may bad. :


But in one of my numerous "Lectures/Tirades/Rants they asked me "Why I Bothered" ... annoyed by them yet again ... I said "if I can help one dog and one owner keep their dog in there home," it's worth my time! I "work" for that "guy/girl." I don't do kids, I don't do other dogs and I have "zero interest in my dog who did not much care for people ... meeting anyone. Zero Bite Risk policy, they just have to be safe and civil no requirement to like uh anyone, it's what I did with my dogs, it's what I do with rescues ... works out fine.

But you know ... you don't often hear from "lukers" but I do ... quite often. They see what "I" go through and they don't want to get involved. Much like Rocky ... you lead I'll follow good enough.

But if you "tweaked" some of the links/advise ... good enough! That's what I do/did with Rocky and his people issues! I did basically what I always did anyway with Struddell. Make them wait (my dogs) before greeting people. I did not realize at the time I was doing Leerburghs "Who Pets My Puppy or Dog" because I always said yes to "my I pet??" But I read Leerburgh ... many years ago and at first read it seemed kinda uh insane??? But you know ... what if instead of always saying "Yes" to my I pet ... I said "No???" It worked out fine and the rest is history.

So if you tweaked some of the advice ... "outstanding!" That is pretty much what I did and I have learned other things on here ... despite what some chose to believe and I share that with others.
And if folks that PM me have questions and it is a question, I can't really answer or feel uncomfortable doing so ... I hand them off to some on here and tell them add "Chip" sent you.

Other than that I also add that by and large aside from Gary ... all the trainers I tend to recommend do weekly Q&A, shows so if someone is not sure ... they can ask those guys directly! And they all have FaceBook pages for questions. But know by and large I'm pretty good at saying what they will tell folks.
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