Thanks for the replies. When i use ecollar i seldom use it to correct my dog rather to stimulate the pressure of a leash. For example when youre first doing recall you communciate to the dog by gently pulling on the leash. You also add ecollar stim (at low levels) to communicate the recall. Over time you stop the leash, then work with the ecollar only. This allows you to recall at distance up to 50 ft and more.
Also to put things into perspective, humans feel a microscopic tickle between level 10 to 14. My dog works at level 2.
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This is where I differ with using an E collar to teach behaviors. I understand how low stim works and I understand how to train a recall with a "tug" on the leash. The tug on the leash, while effective is rather antiquated, IMHO. It is part of the KMODT, which while some is still good and applicable, some….well, not so much.
To think that a "stim" from an E collar is not punishment is incorrect. If you use it like some advocates and "teach" the dog to turn the stim off when it recalls it is certainly negative. If the dog enjoyed the stim, well, it simply would not come back at all. It would wander around the yard getting that "gentle neck massage" that some folks claim it to be.
If it was pleasant to the dog, the dog wouldn't respond. I hope that makes sense???? Keeping the stim on, even on a low level is discomfort to the dog, we need to be very clear on this.
Again, if it was enjoyable the dog would not give you the response. And what happens when the low level stim doesn't work???? Naturally, one would need to raise the stim to a suitable "working level" or a level where the discomfort is enough to cause / force the dog to comply. I am firmly against teaching a dog to operate under these conditions. You have no where to go but up.
I know some folks use E collars in this manner, I feel the need to point out the reality of the training method. I will say an E collar used in this method is better than the "tool of last resort" that many novices think it is.
I use an E collar almost every day on my dogs. It is a tool of finesse, to increase performance, never to train a command. I will say that the 3 dogs I work daily are much, much more than the average GSD. I also expect a performance level that most average folks will not achieve. To achieve a high level of performance, speed and exactness is near impossible, IMO with E Collar stim to teach behaviors.
Often, we are the issue of "well this is ok because my dog is just a pet." I couldn't disagree more with that sentiment. I own pets as well and their training is just as humane, fair and fun as my other dogs.
I'm sorry, but I truly believe the so called "low level stim" to teach behaviors is a flawed E collar philosophy. There is no need to stim a dog to make it sit, just as there is no need to yank up on a leash to make a dog sit. It is old and poor training techniques. Doing both together doesn't make it cutting edge.
I have no issues training dogs to recall at a high speed with no E collar and no leash and no corrections. When training is fun the dog learns faster and the foundation is better. I am running a patrol school now for a green dog and green handler. First week and the dog is focused, happy, in drive, wanting to work and no leash or collar is needed for his recall. It is a totally different training philosophy and methodology. Very easy and very effective.
What many people do not realize are the undesirable effects of using compulsion to train behaviors. Experienced folks will know and recognize it quickly.