General questions about using ecollars - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-22-2016, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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General questions about using ecollars

1) what is typical age to start using them?
2) are these to be worn all the time?
3) any issues with using them to train for inside the house, such as not getting into the trash, cat food/litter, etc?
4) any good reference material, videos, etc to start basic training?
5) any other things to consider???
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-22-2016, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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I intend to work with a trainer as available but my job requires me to be on call much of the time so scheduling is difficult at this time, so I would like to begin this training when appropriate.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-22-2016, 01:39 PM
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How old is your pup? Why do you feel that an e-collar is needed?
The issues in the house could easily be trained with reward based training if you catch them young enough.

I highly recommend finding a trainer that has a flexible schedule and can work with you rather than trying to pick up training online as every situation and dog is different and can better be evaluated in person.

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-22-2016, 03:00 PM
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There are so many things you can train without an e-collar. For online training, look up kikopup on you-tube. Free 'how to's' on just about everything. Also https://www.youtube.com/user/SecretZakVids
lots of basic info. Dog Training for Dummies is at my library, probably yours, ours also has a positive dog training for dummies book. It's a start. You'll need classes to practice with other under control dogs. It's good to teach a dog that good behaviour merits great rewards, fun, food, play, skritches.
If you go the e-collar route, ever (and I hope not now, because positive reinforcement is much more fun for your dog, and also for you if you enjoy having fun) please make sure you know all about the four quadrants of operant conditioning and how it applies to your dog, your training methods, and your dogs environment.

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-22-2016, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the comments. I don't plan to use an ecollar but just doing research in case I need to go that route. Currently using positive reinforcement and reward training and working good. Thanks for the YouTube video and book info.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-22-2016, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSD316 View Post
1) what is typical age to start using them?

I think Seger was about a year, maybe a little more.

2) are these to be worn all the time?

No. they are for training. Leaving them on all the time can create pressure sores

3) any issues with using them to train for inside the house, such as not getting into the trash, cat food/litter, etc?

You have to teach them what the stim means. After that, there is no reason why they can't be used for such things.

4) any good reference material, videos, etc to start basic training?

Find a good trainer. Timing is everything.

5) any other things to consider???
And time I use compulsion or a correction, I like to follow with something positive. I dont' want my dog to only know the negative and I dont' want him shut down. You need to balance your training with any tool.




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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-25-2016, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSD316 View Post
1) what is typical age to start using them?
2) are these to be worn all the time?
3) any issues with using them to train for inside the house, such as not getting into the trash, cat food/litter, etc?
4) any good reference material, videos, etc to start basic training?
5) any other things to consider???
1. Most manufacturers say, and I agree, that six months is the minimum age.

2. That's up to you. If you don't want your dog to wear it, then you can train it away, the same as any other training tool. But if your dog makes a bad decision that puts him in danger, the Ecollar is the only tool (assuming that he's off leash) that will allow you to save him. You have insurance on your car, why not have it on your dog?

3. I recommend that first you use it to train basic OB as if the dog had never received any training. Then he'll understand what the stim means. If you just use the tool to correct noncompliance or misbehavior he won't.

4. **** REmoved by ADMIN *****

5. If you go this way, buy quality. If you decide to use my methods only Dogtra or Educator will work.

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-25-2016, 09:20 AM
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Those who allude to the Ecollar as not being "fun" really have no idea what they're talking about. What's "fun" is getting results quickly and humanely. The so−called "positive" methods work well for most folks until dogs start to mature. Then many of them discover that those methods lose their power. Other dogs, squirrels, cats and more, become much more attractive than a treat or praise. It takes someone who is very good with those methods to maintain reliable performance at that stage of life, and beyond it.

It's a shame that some think that "compulsion" is the only way that the tool can be used.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-26-2016, 11:47 PM
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Lou,
It's a shame that some think that "compulsion" is the only way that the tool can be used.

Doesn't your E collar method rely on compulsion? Clearly, it is not "fun" for the dog, if it was the dog wouldn't comply. In your method the dog performs the behavior to stop the discomfort of the stim of the E collar. If it wasn't an adverse feeling the dog would continue the behavior, right?

com·pul·sion
[kəmˈpəlSHən]
NOUN
the action or state of forcing or being forced to do something; constraint:
"the payment was made under compulsion"
synonyms: obligation · constraint · coercion · duress · pressure · [more]
an irresistible urge to behave in a certain way, especially against one's conscious wishes:
"he felt a compulsion to babble on about what had happened"

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-28-2016, 04:30 PM
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Earlier I wrote,
Quote:
It's a shame that some think that "compulsion" is the only way that the tool can be used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamdunc View Post
Doesn't your E collar method rely on compulsion?
Hmmm. A question from someone who refuses to answer my questions? I'll do the right thing, even if you won't. I'm not afraid of questions as some seem to be, I welcome them.

Part of your confusion is that you're using a common, everyday definition for something that has become part of dog training jargon and has moved away from the common definition, but let's proceed.

I'll begin by asking you a question. If you hold up a treat to get a dog to sit, is that "rely[ing] on compulsion? If you think that it is, after all, the dog is "compelled" by his desire to get the treat to obey the command and perform the movement, then the answer is "Yes," my method "relies on compulsion." But most will agree that, absent starvation, no dog is under "compulsion" at that moment. Similarly, the level of stim that I use for teaching, training, and proofing is so low that if he wanted to, he could just sit there and not obey the command. He could just wander off if he wanted and the leash was dropped. He'd be slightly uncomfortable, just as would be the dog who refused to sit to get his treat, but he could do it. He's not under "compulsion" because the stim level is so low.

This is NOT the case when someone uses the Ecollar, as you do, to stop undesired behaviors. If the dog persists in that behavior, you just turn up the level of stim until the PAIN "compels" the dog to comply. See the difference? Some will not see it, especially if their ethos prevents them from admitting that they didn't understand a simple concept, or that they were wrong in an assumption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamdunc View Post
If it wasn't an adverse feeling the dog would continue the behavior, right?
You may have forgotten that I'm not using the Ecollar to stop undesired behaviors. I'm using it to teach, train, and proof new behaviors.
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