Time for Ecollar? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-11-2016, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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Time for Ecollar?

My Shepherd is European, 25 months old. I have been training him through my breeder since he was about 6 months old. I am currently working on off leash heeling, recalls etc with fairly good success.

Likely ready to be tested for basic obedience.

2 issues: To protective of our yard & house. If I meet people a door or two down from our home he is fine with them. We are working on this.

The second issue is Dog Aggression. Strange as at breeders he is very good but on street I basically have to drag him away. If he runs the fence at one of the neighbour dogs I need to distract him as I take him away as he goes from o (calm) to 100 instantly.

I take him to plaza's etc & heel him. Usually very good but on occasion decides to bark at people. Example in 15 minutes will decide to bark at 1 out of the 50 folks who go by.

Would you recommend continue with the training off lease & then switch to ecollar?

The off lease is done in safe areas & if people are around the lease is dragging for quick access if I need it.


His training & recall is getting good but I guess deep down I know I need 100% compliance.

We recently stated to use an outdoor kennel for him for an hour or two a day. We needed to use a bark collar & after 1 bark, he is quiet outside. I guess that shows he learned quickly.

He is a very solid dog, the breeder calls him hard with a bit of sensitivity. He is an intact male. Our 4th Shepherd in 30 some years.

I guess my questions are the typical ones you hear time and time again. In the past month I started using a prong while training & do not need to correct but helped our pup to maintain correct positions.

From everyone's knowledge on here, is there benefits in going to the Ecollar? Should I finish his obedience before switching to ecollar or should I just start substituting it in? I have read & reread Lou Castle's info several times and really like his style for training. Any comments from folks who have fairly well trained dogs and then add the ecollar to finish them?

Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-11-2016, 05:48 PM
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1. Leash, not lease. Autocorrect gone mad?

2. "the breeder calls him hard with a bit of sensitivity"? That doesn't make any sense. Sensitive dogs are not "hard", and hard dogs are not sensitive.

3. An eCollar can be a great tool (plenty of recent threads on it), but it won't magically solve all your problems. It sounds like you need better handling skills, which likely translates to working with a better trainer.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-11-2016, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry... Yes Leash

Please do not cut down my trainer as he is exceptionally good. He has been training for Police forces as well as private protection dogs for about 30 years. Sensitivity meant not in physical way. He is a true European with Sch in his bloodline. Just can tell sometimes he is pissed & will mop for about 10 seconds.

Last off.... I do not have major issues, was just asking if an Ecollar is a good progression after getting his First level Obediance done.

I mentioned a few things to show I do not have a perfect dog and to get a conversation started.




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Originally Posted by yuriy View Post
1. Leash, not lease. Autocorrect gone mad?

2. "the breeder calls him hard with a bit of sensitivity"? That doesn't make any sense. Sensitive dogs are not "hard", and hard dogs are not sensitive.

3. An eCollar can be a great tool (plenty of recent threads on it), but it won't magically solve all your problems. It sounds like you need better handling skills, which likely translates to working with a better trainer.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-11-2016, 06:18 PM
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There are two other trainers Jeff Gellman, SolidK9Training and Sean O’Shea The Good Dog, tons of information, and they also use E-Collars. Family Pet's is their thing if you need info on that there you go.

E-Collar training seems to be quite the thing these days.

https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7378442-post9.html

Welcome aboard.

Last edited by Chip18; 01-11-2016 at 06:23 PM.
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-11-2016, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadianbb View Post
Sorry... Yes Leash

Please do not cut down my trainer as he is exceptionally good. He has been training for Police forces as well as private protection dogs for about 30 years. Sensitivity meant not in physical way. He is a true European with Sch in his bloodline. Just can tell sometimes he is pissed & will mop for about 10 seconds.

Last off.... I do not have major issues, was just asking if an Ecollar is a good progression after getting his First level Obediance done.

I mentioned a few things to show I do not have a perfect dog and to get a conversation started.
A dog that has regularly worked with a good trainer from 6 to 24 months should not have the issues you've described. There is a disconnect somewhere. A good trainer does not just train the dog, but also trains the handler. Either the trainer is not communicating to you what you need to do and not do (and why!), or you are not following through with the trainer's advice. Given that you're putting in effort and research, I'm assuming it's the former, thus my suggestion for a different trainer.

Being "pissed [and mopping]" makes it sound like the dog is frustrated, and if that's the case, then there's no clarity in the training. The dog doesn't know what you want from it, so you need to back up in your training and address the missing steps.

Simple expressions like "true European with Sch in this bloodline" suggest a lack of understanding what you're working with. There are different GSD lines in Europe (as in the US) and they have different characteristics. A DDR dog will be quite different from a WGSL, and both can be fairly described as "European." So, "European," as a description, really doesn't mean squat. Nor does having Sch titles somewhere in the bloodline. If the parents were titled at a high level, that's definitely a good thing, but if one dog three generations away got its BH, that really doesn't translate to anything for your dog. Both situations can be described as "having Sch in the bloodline."

Similarly, "first level obedience" can mean a million different things. What does that mean for you?

I'm afraid that having to "drag [the dog] away" (in any situation) does constitute a "major issue."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing you or your dog. It's a learning process that everyone goes through. But it's important to work with people that can give you accurate information, can explain what should be expected from your dog, and guide you to that point.

There is no set time for when to use an eCollar. As people say, "know your dog." This is where having a good trainer becomes imperative, because they can see your handling skills, your dog's behaviour, and make a call for you. Does your trainer suggest using the eCollar to address the things your want changed?

Lou Castle's methods work great for many dogs, and they may work well for you, too. Discuss them with whatever trainer you end up with, and make a training plan to address any obedience or behavioural issues.

Last edited by yuriy; 01-11-2016 at 07:30 PM.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-11-2016, 09:28 PM
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Im located in Ontario. Ill tell you this, there are people that throw around the word police k9 and schutzhund bloodlines like it means something. People like you who dont know better (this is not your fault) buy into it and next thing you know you are signed up for substandard training, a new puuppy and whatever else. These people dont compete and you rarely see their training or dogs. When you do its often laughable. We have a bunch of those kicking around.

Here is the deal, if within a month or two the trainer was not able to teach you and your dog to recall and heel off leash around distractions which include other dogs you are being scammed.
Proper obedience should not take long to achieve nor should you have the issues described if you are going to a competent trainer (There are not many of these).

Is the remote collar a good option? Yes it is, but again I wouldnt trust your current trainer to use one based on the long track record of failure. Find a local trainer that has a track record of actual success in the things you are looking to achieve.

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Last edited by Blitzkrieg1; 01-11-2016 at 09:31 PM.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-11-2016, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I do appreciate them all but I may have made it sound like my issues were a bit tougher then they are. For example tonight I was off leash training by a local mall with no real issues. 4 dogs went by and I heeled past them. I know my pup wanted to make a fuss but as long as I worked he was fine.


I will continue to work off leash and possibly this spring I will start ecollar training.


This is a great forum and it is nice to see everyone willing to give suggestions.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-11-2016, 11:27 PM
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I wouldn't.

If you trust your trainer, then discuss these issues with him. He can see the dog, he can see you, he can see you interact with the dog. He can tell you a lot better than a bunch of people on the internet, who cannot see you or your dog, or you interacting with your dog.

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