Ball drive vs old time work ethic - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 213 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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Ball drive vs old time work ethic

On a closed thread Carmen said this:

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ball drive has little to do with anything .

it is the modern way to engage and motivate, lure and bribe
it says nothing about the instinct about an intrinsic , self rewarding drive
and that does include obedience , see all the threads about genetic obedience

tracking dogs were tested by their desire to track
So what motivates a dog to track what WE want it to track? How does it become useful and reliable?

Doc

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post #2 of 213 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 06:50 PM
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Wait, maybe I am being obtuse, but how are you using a ball to teach a dog to track.

I have seen food used. But never a ball. Well sometimes at the end as a final reward. But normally food.

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post #3 of 213 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 06:53 PM
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I am fully aware that a dog MUST demonstrate strong ball drive as this is part of the testing and used for motivation.
I have made sure that the dogs do have this.

Actually the earliest Czech dogs that were imported were totally flat on ball play - it was just not part of their experience. So in order to maintain a market all of a sudden dogs were coming in where you could see that there had been pressure put on , only to be relieved once the dog had the ball. Power on , on , on, dog grabs ball, power off . The dog has now learned how to help himself get out of a bad situation.

I have made sure that natural instinctive tracking is part of my dogs genetic package.

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post #4 of 213 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
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I'm looking for something more general then that, but I've buried balls on a footstep track for one of my dogs. 7 or 8 of them, he'd indicate on it, let him have it for a minute, then restart.

Doc

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post #5 of 213 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 06:54 PM
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I don't use food on a track .

Master tracks right from the start . This also requires the dog to have good social skills and good bonding .

Carmen

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post #6 of 213 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carmspack View Post
I don't use food on a track .

Master tracks right from the start . This also requires the dog to have good social skills and good bonding .

Can you expand on this a bit more? How? What age do you start? Who is the dog tracking? Do they find them at the end? Is there a reward at the end? How long are the first tracks? On leash? Scent discriminating from the start?

Just curious. Never heard of someone doing this. So would love some input.

"So that others may live"

Hannah vom Steffenhaus, BH, Wilderness SAR
Eisenhower v.d Polizei "Ike" Wilderness SAR, CGC
B'Lena z. Treuenhanden
Nixon vom Banach, RATN
Phoster, FEMA USAR(Labrador)
Ch. Pennywise Sticky Wicket(Dandie Dinmont Terrier)
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post #7 of 213 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 08:06 PM
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all the time -- put in a lot of dogs for RCMP - doing 2 and 3 mile tracks at 6 - 7 months

the same fire in the belly to hunt out is necessary for any of the detection dogs

Carmspack Blast - new title
Carmspack Blast trained and handled by Sue Coutts , also owner of Carmspack Trust UDTX (urban track excellent) , has earned a new title.

He is now Blast who has his Urban Track title now also has added the TDX title to his achievements.

the conditions could not have been worse ---- here is Sue's account of things .

We had some record rainfall yesterday and overnight, with our roads covered in water across them, and raining this morning still.
Winds were supposed to be bad again today, but never got too much before our tracks were over, luckily.
Blast was no. 2 and that field meant the very long walk out to start, which is an issue for us as he’s straining to get there and choking, and my arm’s almost out of its socket!

We had two ditches, a dirt/gravel road crossing, some ruts where I almost fell
There were 8 legs, seemed really, really long, but showed as only 905m.
he did it very quickly, I had to run a few times.-

-- areas with standing water


here is what a TDX track might look like Birch-Bark Hill: TDX "Test" Training Track for Blast

you can go back through these blogs that Sue posted.

Trust Urban Tracking Dog Excellent
Blast (just turned 3 at the time) Urban Tracking Dog Excellent
Kira - prepared for life in detection
Spook TDX (Kilo) daughter

Blast's brother Badger https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...my-summer.html

Carmen

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post #8 of 213 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 08:09 PM
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Carmen, the post above isn't explaining your method, but then I do understand not wanting to give out any information about how you introduce master tracks from the beginning on an open forum, as it can be misinterpreted.

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post #9 of 213 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 08:27 PM
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Gus started tracking at I believe 4 months of age. I did this with a trainer and master tracks. The early tracks were with the trainer handling and I would lay the track by walking or running and hide, the reward being me.
That evolved to any person hiding, some strangers, some he knew and again the reward was to find them, he needed nothing more. There is no bait or balls used. When he finds the person he goes crazy, that IS his reward.

Carmspack Gus
Nov/25/2012
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post #10 of 213 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 08:32 PM
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so exciting for the dog with that type search/tracking, I know my dogs would much rather track as you do vs the footstep obedience sport tracks, a ball isn't as exciting as finding the actual source of the scent

Jane~
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