E-Coller and Michael Ellis training methods? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-04-2015, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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E-Coller and Michael Ellis training methods?

So I was advised to go through a reputable trainer when it came to using the E-Coller on my 9 month old GSD. So I did my research and found a great trainer in my area. I asked her what types of methods she used when it came to training with the E-Coller and this was the response I got from her:

"Basically, all "modern" remote collar training is what we call low level e-collar training. There are variations on a theme, of course, and each trainer (even within the same organization ) is slightly different. Sit Means Sit and Offleash K9's protocols are near identical. Offleash K9 is the company that produced the video you sent me. Lou Castle is only one of an army of e-collar trainers, and honestly, he's not regarded as of the top trainers in this field, although he is very good. He has his own style, which is effective, but it's just one approach. I'm familiar with the SMS method, Lou's approach and those of trainers such as Duke Ferguson in PEI and finally Michael Ellis in San Francisco. My approach probably most closely resembles that of Michael Ellis' with my own protocols that have been developed and keep evolving after every dog I train."

Now I've done a fair amount of research into Lou Castle's methods, and feel very confident in his training methods. I however know nothing on Michael Ellis, so that's where you guys come in! Based on the response I received from my trainer, what do you guys think? Are Michael Ellis's methods any good? I've read so many horror stories on "ruined" dogs after e-coller training, so naturally the paranoid part of me is really worried about it.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-04-2015, 10:04 PM
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Ohh, I bet one person is going to strongly disagree with something
Hey Ashley, is there some specific goal you have? Why the ecollar vs some other things?

Doc

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-04-2015, 10:30 PM
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You do know Lou is a member here??

By and large I roll "tool" free myself:

https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

I do use a slip leash these days, more time required, but I'm not in a hurry so it works for me.

tHESE ====
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-04-2015, 11:14 PM
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i use Ecollars for corrections not training. the dogs do wear them in off leash training class but when i use them in the real world it's more just a tool to touch the dog at a distance. if a dog is not listening and being a butthead/ignoring you at 200feet away it's just a way to physically touch them to re-focus when they have a brain fart.

sometimes i wonder if the dogs think i'm some kinda magician. they must be thinking "how in the world can he still touch me from way over there".
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-04-2015, 11:24 PM
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Link to Michael Ellis School for Dog Trainers.

The Michael Ellis School for Dog Trainers

Plenty of videos including on his philosophy of training.

Samuel

Lancer 05/01/08
Tory 09/19/14

Kayla (RIP) 02/12/05-09/22/14
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-04-2015, 11:31 PM
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I learned it the way Michael Ellis taught it. There are some differences between Michael Ellis and Lou. No alarming differences I'd say. I did it on my own for my first ecollar dog by watching the Ellis videos, it wasn't hard. The second dog, my trainer helped me and she wasn't really following the Ellis protocol and went thru it quicker bypassing some steps recommended by Ellis. Overall theme/idea is the same. Personally, I felt the Ellis protocol when followed closely is my preferred method because my shepherd picked it up well and fast (or maybe because that method fitted her well or she's just smart like that!).

If you want to know it for yourself to make an informed decision (rather than social media), you can learn more about both by reading Lou's site and purchasing videos of Michael Ellis' methods on ecollar from Leerburg.

Your trainer sounds knowledgeable about the tool. I agree with her overall thoughts.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 07:53 AM
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Originally e-collar was invented for problematic dogs when every other method failed: or it was a dog who is danger to himself (cats, running under wheels across a busy road after a cat), or extreme aggression. It affects dog's brain and destroys brain cells, especially when overused. Despite warnings e-collars become popular (like anything else what makes life easier). Is your dog really so bad that you have to use it? Anyway, a good trainer would recommend to sense electric shock and vibration yourself first before putting it on your dog. I heard that one girl put e-collar on herself and gave the controller into her younger brother's hands. She had never put it on her dog after. Please, remember, e-collars are much ruder, inhumane appliances than prong collars. Prong collars (if used not for their purpose) make dogs nervous and more aggressive, but how much damage e-collars do - is simply not known to science yet, they are comparatively new.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 11:50 AM
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So wrong it borders on irresponsible to not delete it
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Baillif View Post
So wrong it borders on irresponsible to not delete it
Well, maybe some of his thoughts just need some context. I think a lot of it is covered here, on this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU0QZQRTNr0

Doc

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 12:06 PM
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I don't know if you're following this Ashley, but just remember the ecollar is just a tool. Its the dog training skills of the trainer that matter. Using the e collar isn't rocket science, and anyone can quote a bunch of methods and theory.

Doc

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