Professional Dog Training: Mis-Information Thread 2015 - 2020 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
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Professional Dog Training: Mis-Information Thread 2015 - 2020

It occurred to me that there's so much misinformation being put out on proper dog training techniques, (Internet and otherwise) I decided I would ask the professional trainers, not specifically the breeder's who have had 200 - 300 litters under their belts who have claimed themselves to be professionals, "based on trial and error." Post the most up to date wrong or improper training quotes or techniques -- so the newer members are/were easily able to "sift through the pile of bad information."

I am not a breeder nor a trainer/handler. I do what I can, with what I have.

Lucky for me I have someone I can trust 100% to tell me right from wrong.

A professional with 25+ years in K-9 Police work "who is not a breeder and states facts, not necessarily opinions, based on proven methods of German Shepherd and Malinois Dogs." Professionally trained in various spectrum's such as; Search and Rescue, Police Work, Army, Navy, Marines and Air-Force as well as Special Forces.

If you name names and it's a negative comment, the mods. will delete your post. So, if you want it to remain in print, use an **asterisk** and give an explanation professionally...

SehrGutCsg

Last edited by sehrgutcsg; 12-20-2014 at 12:07 PM.
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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 12:49 PM
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What I personally like and dislike about a forum, is when someone like yourself SehrGut just posts what you've done with your dogs. What you like or dislike, what worked for you. I can appreciate everyone's experiences like that. I just enjoy the conversations about dogs.

It sound's like maybe you and I dislike the same thing, maybe in a slightly different way, but in general "pros" that feel the need to proclaim they're "pros" and can cite every study and scientific such and such, but will never show themselves doing something as simple as walking a dog. When it comes to that, I can't help but have that show me attitude.
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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sehrgutcsg View Post
It occurred to me that there's so much misinformation being put out on proper dog training techniques, (Internet and otherwise) I decided I would ask the professional trainers, not specifically the breeder's who have had 200 - 300 litters under their belts who have claimed themselves to be professionals, "based on trial and error." Post the most up to date wrong or improper training quotes or techniques -- so the newer members are/were easily able to "sift through the pile of bad information."

I am not a breeder nor a trainer/handler. I do what I can, with what I have.

Lucky for me I have someone I can trust 100% to tell me right from wrong.

A professional with 25+ years in K-9 Police work "who is not a breeder and states facts, not necessarily opinions, based on proven methods of German Shepherd and Malinois Dogs." Professionally trained in various spectrum's such as; Search and Rescue, Police Work, Army, Navy, Marines and Air-Force as well as Special Forces.

If you name names and it's a negative comment, the mods. will delete your post. So, if you want it to remain in print, use an **asterisk** and give an explanation professionally...

SehrGutCsg
Firstly I am not a proffesional dog trainer.

Secondly this is an impossible answer.
Depending on what you want to achieve with your dog the answers will vary...
A police dog for example is NOT a pet dog...
A competition dog however may double as a pet dog...

Either way in every single aspect, and whatever purpose you train for.
Professionals do one thing consistently. They often disagree...
The philosophy on how to train for each aspect can VARY significantly.

Its like getting a professional ballet teacher to teach a Boxer... Sure she can work on flexibility, fitness, balance, co-ordination... The boxer will improve... However the ballet teacher will never be able to teach that person how to box.

This is why us as consumers of these 'services' we need to be very well read, and hypocritical before we comit to anything. And have good justification as to why we chose to follow that specific individual.
They need to be sensitive to us our dog and what we want to achieve.

I get what you are trying to achieve in this thread. Some form of standardisation.. Or protocol, as to agreement...

But that cant be done without being more specific as to what kind of training you are referring to.

Last edited by Lykoz; 12-20-2014 at 02:26 PM.
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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 04:36 PM
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If possible Lykoz, you should get out and see some Police dogs and competition dogs doing what they do. See some hands on training. It may give you a little different perspective, especially as far as temperaments, but also philosophies and theories.
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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 05:40 PM
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If possible Lykoz, you should get out and see some Police dogs and competition dogs doing what they do. See some hands on training. It may give you a little different perspective, especially as far as temperaments, but also philosophies and theories.
Seeing police dogs and working dogs more in action, is a very welcomed thing... I enjoy it every time..

A GSD for example lives for approximately 10 years. In those 10 years it may never bite... Or it may bite its handler just once, and cause Serious grievous damage. That is enough to even kill somebody. That one bite for a Pet owner is unacceptable....

I have owned 8 dogs in my life and none have ever turned to bite me or shown any aggression to me.

To watch a dog for an hour... or even a week or month consistently doesn't necessarily say much about its risk profile.

The dogs you are speaking about are highly trained and highly effective... They always look good when you see them doing their thing...

It does not change the fact that it would be negligence to let your kid play with a police dog the same way you might let them play with a pet dog.

Police dog have OFTEN bitten their handlers.
They are trained in highly stressful situations. They often bite the wrong targets. There are a lot of reports all over the internet on this. They have a much higher risk profile.

A lot of them have to leave the program, because they cant handle the work.. If they were forced to do the work, they could be neurologically damaged... Dogs not tailored to this type of training can literally have a breakdown if forced to do it. You need a very specific type of dog, to manage the program. It is not by chance that police dogs are HIGLY expensive to breed... Infact getting your hands on a specifically bred litter for the police is not easy... And if you do... You will pay a lot.

The trainers are more specific in training police dogs... If the dog cant cut it... The dog is out the program... A pet dog owner cant just abandon his dog because the training isnt going well... They deal with very specific and unique traits.

A police trained dog is not a suitable family pet.
It could be argued that a dog trainer with only experience in police work might not be a good trainer out of that scope. On the other hand with hours of working with dogs, and a receptive mind to better his trade...
He could become the BEST pet dog trainer EVER...

I am just saying there are different approaches for different reasons.

Last edited by Lykoz; 12-20-2014 at 05:47 PM.
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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 05:49 PM
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The dogs you are speaking about are highly trained and highly effective...
Yeah, except for the ones that aren't. You'd see both, in person. All I'm saying is you'd have a different perspective, the more you see. And as far as temperament, my point is training doesnt change temperament. A good dog can be perfectly fine doing police work or sport and still living with a family just like any responsibly owned pet . I see both here and there.
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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 05:56 PM
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I was always under the impression that a police dog had 'work time' then 'home time', and while at home, it acted just like a pet. Has my thinking this been right or wrong?

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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 06:01 PM
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Yeah, except for the ones that aren't. You'd see both, in person. All I'm saying is you'd have a different perspective, the more you see. And as far as temperament, my point is training doesnt change temperament. A good dog can be perfectly fine doing police work or sport and still living with a family just like any responsibly owned pet . I see both here and there.
Temparment? I dont want to get into the psychology of words with you... Strictly speaking can it change based on environment... I don't know or care to find out.

Can a dogs behaviour and aggressiveness change due to training... Most definitely Yes.

We are shaped by inherent genetic characteristics and our environment. Both play Vital roles.

Police dogs are different to other dogs often both genetically and environmentally.

Their Temparment/behaviour/agressiveness is of a different profile to your average pet dog.

They need a different approach.

The best World Championship Sport dog will not necessarily be the best Police Dog... They are two very different things. Infact a World Champion Sport dog may actually show fear in a real fight. A police dog shouldn't... The officers life may depend on the dog not showing fear. A police dog however will not have the same Technical prowess and level of obedience like a sport dog...

Sport dogs deal with much different stressors to a police dog with a real fighting assailant...

To think they need to trained the same way is naive...

Similarly a police dog and a pet dog are even more different.

Last edited by Lykoz; 12-20-2014 at 06:05 PM.
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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 06:02 PM
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It just depends on the dog Debanneball, and maybe different Dept's rules about how they have to be treated separate of work, no matter their temperament. But that's all it is, temperament, just like your dogs.
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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 06:03 PM
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I was always under the impression that a police dog had 'work time' then 'home time', and while at home, it acted just like a pet. Has my thinking this been right or wrong?
Most responsible police departments keep their dogs kennelled. They don't take them home...

The dogs go home with the police officer when they retire.

Police dogs need to rest and not be distracted. They work and then they sleep...
They are not meant to play games with the kids like a pet would.
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