Old fashioned training - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2013, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
Knighted Member
 
Zeeva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 3,444
Old fashioned training

My brother in law has a rottie and a dobbie: amazing dogs. Very loyal, great with kids, good with other dogs (my two will try to fight them and they walk away or ignore their aggression), very obedient. They're kennel dogs and he uses the alpha roll as well as compulsion training. He used water to condition his dobbie so much that if you take the dobbie near the pool or near a hose he may bite. It really makes me wonder...I've only seen my own somewhat poorly trained dogs by me and my positive reinforcement training and his well trained dogs with his older training methods. I was always afraid of the older training methods making a dog obedient because he she is scared of the owner there by hurting the bond between owner and dog. But his two LOVE LOVE LOVE him and the family; even the toddler and their 3 year old.

What am I missing? Enlighten me about the negativity toward this type of trainer? Isn't this the type of training used by police dogs? They're supposed to be very well trained dogs too, right?
Zeeva is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2013, 03:31 PM
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: georgia
Posts: 4,262
There are effective trainers in all styles. ... and then there are good trainers.
gagsd is offline  
post #3 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2013, 03:36 PM
Crowned Member
 
Mary Beth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pierre, South Dakota
Posts: 5,129
I really can't endorse your brother-in-laws method of compulsion training especially with using the water. Also with the alpha roll over - that can backfire. Positive training does not mean all sweetness and treats either rather I consider it a way of teaching the dog that it is in his best interests to please me. I also use a combination of positive and natural dog training which uses the dog's prey drive to help me establish leadership and achieve cooperation.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Royal K9s Baron Sting DB 7/9/2017


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sting Chance von Gaard 2006-2017
Mary Beth is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2013, 03:43 PM
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: georgia
Posts: 4,262
If I have a child who goes to the pool without my permission, and I take said child to the pool, hold her head under water repeatedly until near drowning, and when it is all over she NEVER goes near water again..... it was effective. But was it RIGHT?

(and yes, I know dogs are not children.... but I think you get the point)
gagsd is offline  
post #5 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2013, 06:27 PM
The Agility Rocks! Moderator
 
MaggieRoseLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Bushkill, PA (The Poconos!)
Posts: 27,477
Quote:
They're kennel dogs and he uses the alpha roll as well as compulsion training. He used water to condition his dobbie so much that if you take the dobbie near the pool or near a hose he may bite.
Any training that brings out that type of aggression/fear in any dogs should be a HUGE heads up to training I want no part of. Ever.

Some of the best trainers/dogs in the world are only taught by using positive methods. I agree with what gagsd stated. It's not the method it's the trainer...and if I'm having trouble in training I need to up my learning and methods. There's a reason Ive been taking classes for over 10 years




***

Miss Osin Blue Wildhaus NA NAJ NF

"Nothing new can come into your life unless you are grateful for what you already have. ~ "--- Michael Bernhard, gratitude
MaggieRoseLee is offline  
post #6 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2013, 07:08 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 159
If you use enough force you can get a dog to do pretty much anything. Doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. If you're not getting results with positive reinforcement perhaps it's time to reexamine your methods and techniques.
ten3zro is offline  
post #7 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2013, 07:12 PM
Knighted Member
 
Gharrissc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 3,132
Some good points have already been made here, but I think a lot of trainers or regular dog owners who are against 'cookie training' are under the impression that somehow you are 'bargaining' with the dog or that the dog should do it because 'they said so'. I don't know your brother, but I think he would see a bigger difference in his dog if he employed more positivity in his training with the dogs.
Gharrissc is offline  
post #8 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2013, 08:31 PM
Crowned Member
 
llombardo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 14,027
I wouldn't want my dog to fear me because of training methods. I lean more towards positive, but I will give mild(very mild) corrections...like a loud no, but I don't get much more harsh then that.

Misty- Samoyed Mix, Tannor- Golden Retriever CGC
Robyn- GSD CGC, TC, Midnite-GSD CGC,TC, Brennan-Golden Retriever CGC, Batman-Husky/Greyhound , Apollo-GSD
llombardo is offline  
post #9 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2013, 09:47 PM
Crowned Member
 
cliffson1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,446
Fear and love, love, love, DON'T go hand in hand! I don't doubt you when you say they love him and the family.....I'm not understanding something?....is it possible they don't fear him.....Nah I just can't comprehend this.
cliffson1 is offline  
post #10 of 67 (permalink) Old 08-17-2013, 09:50 PM
Elite Member
 
Merciel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 1,574
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffson1 View Post
Fear and love, love, love, DON'T go hand in hand! I don't doubt you when you say they love him and the family.....I'm not understanding something?....is it possible they don't fear him.....Nah I just can't comprehend this.
Abused kids often still love their parents.

Dogs are capable of conflicted emotions too. Not quite as complicated in the layering, maybe, but love and fear are pretty primal.

ARCHMX TDCH Pongu the Insane, CD-C, RE, RL1X6, RL2X5, RL3X2 (GSD mix, b. Apr 2010)
Crookytail the Tigerwuff, RL1, ITD (Akita mix, b. Jan 2011)
Merciel is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome