E-Collar confusion - method and theory of use - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-09-2013, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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E-Collar confusion - method and theory of use

Well - I am confused (normal for me ) I have been researching the use of E-Collars and the methods behind them. I should say methods as there are many ways folks use them. I posted a question below in the equipment section about this model SportDOG HoundHunter 3225 Remote Trainer

The reason I am considering it are the modes of training it has. It can tone, vibrate and shock. Even in shock it has momentary and continuous.

Here is the question. I am trying to train Emma off leash. She does fine on short leash and Ok on the long line - about 95% recall. Its the 5% that is driving me nuts, especially when distracted. Cats and preary dogs - she has a one track mind. Off leash she is 100% opposit and will not mind at all, unless she wants too. I use her favoriate treats and same commands. More than half the time she will not come if there is any distraction and plays keep away when it is time to go back on the leash.

We start another basic training class tomorrow to work on this (next up from her puppy class). She is 7 months old currently too.

I attended a local club field event a few weeks ago. I wanted to socialize Emma and learn about the club. She did great on the socialization except for a couple of aggressive dogs. Almost half the folks had some sort of e-collar. Dogtra was popular and the Sitmeanssit one too. Many said they did not use the shock now, but only tone/vibration. The aggressive dogs had only shock collars that were very effective at correcting. Makes me wonder if the shock was causing aggression.

One gentleman used tone beeps to control his retriever direction, He used to use a whistle, but thought it was to hard on his and other ears. Another lady had a Dogtra and only used the page/vibrate setting for correction and voice for everything else.

So is there one preferred way. They all said their dogs reacted differently to differant devices and to find one with enough options to find what worked without buying several collars. Several mentioned the Sitmeanssit and the SportDog models as they had tone/vibrate and shock modes. The all recommended get the best range possible as trees and building can cause signal loss (anything that is not line of sight).

Thoughts - I want a way to work with Emma off leash so she can accompany us on the horse back trails when we go.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-09-2013, 11:18 AM
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See my reply on your other thread..I too am at the point where I only ever need page or vibrate..and even that is rare. He does not seem to notice if the collar if of or on , so to me that is a success.

I also ONLY use it for what you are describing..selective recall off lead. It worked for us , and quite quickly. I am under the supervision of a trainer.

It clearly states on the instruction that e collars should only be used for aggressive dogs under the strict supervision of a trainer..it could make things worse. I hope the people you saw that were using them on aggressive dogs were doing so under a trainer's tutelage !

I have never had to use anything beyond a tingle to correct my dog ignoring my commands that he knew well. Tried it on myself. The collar was not unpleasant until 40 and above ..it was down right unpleasant after 50 ..made your muscles contract. I have mine set on 20 which honestly is tingly and nothing more .

Alvin - GSD - born @ late February 2013
Bo - Boxer/Hound - born @ late June 2008
Greta - English Mastiff - born somewhere between 2003 and 2005 ,estimated.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-09-2013, 02:21 PM
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Home (that is LouCastle.com, lol... came up like this for the hyperlink) is all you ever wanted to know about proper e-collar use. Don't go by the people at your club, some might use it correctly, some might not. Check out the site and read.

Friar (Roemly) Von der Zahnburg
10/25/2012
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-09-2013, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roemly's Mama View Post
Home (that is LouCastle.com, lol... came up like this for the hyperlink) is all you ever wanted to know about proper e-collar use. Don't go by the people at your club, some might use it correctly, some might not. Check out the site and read.
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-12-2013, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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Great link - Thank You

I have a lot of watching and learning to do.

After talking with my trainer and Emma going on another walk about (an hour with me trying to catch her), I decided to get the SportDOG 1825.

My training class is very small - only 2 of us, and the trainer is willing to work in the collar on some exercises, using the tone or vibrate modes. She is not apposed to collars, but the dog needs to know the commands first without it. I 100% agree that it is just a tool and not a punishment and that Emma knows what is expected.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roemly's Mama View Post
Home (that is LouCastle.com, lol... came up like this for the hyperlink) is all you ever wanted to know about proper e-collar use. Don't go by the people at your club, some might use it correctly, some might not. Check out the site and read.
Best. Ecollar. Instruction Site. EVER.

And as for aggressive dogs and ecollars, as long as you don't link the dog with the stim it wont make the dog associate stim with the other dog. Therefore, it shouldn't cause aggression. I use it as a negative reinforcer when dealing with aggression (and almost always), works amazingly. Rather then a punisher when the dog is being aggressive. For example, when the dog barks or lunges, I say "Leave it" or "come" hold down stim at working level. Then, when she comes or leaves it i say "Yes" or click and treat. That way, she does not link a correction with the dog which would make her fearful of the dog, and she is rewarded with a treat, increasing the chances of her comming to me in a situation like that while decreasing the chances of her barking. Sorry if that does not make sense, I can have a hard time explaining things sometimes xD

Btw, I trust dogta collars. I have the dogtra surestim.

Celia Belle Mickel
Born:6/1/11
Gender:Female
Breed:GSD
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-31-2013, 11:06 AM
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WOW! You guys just made my day. Thanks, very much.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 08-31-2013, 03:10 PM
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I have found the e collar to be very effective in teaching recall, leave it, and sit at a distance, using Lou's protocols. (that is what we have worked on so far)
My GSD has reactivity issues with other dogs. I have not seen her getting more reactive/aggressive since using the collar. She gets stimmed if she isn't following my command....at the lowest level that is effective. And that happens whether or not there is another dog, or just me calling her "here". A lot of the time I just use the vibrate and she follows my command.
I love it for walking around town. I keep it in my pocket and no one sees it. People are just amazed how well trained she is...
The best was when another lady was walking her GSD, who also had reactive issues. We were on opposite sides of the street, her dog was barking, lunging, etc. (which is what Stella would usually do) but I just said "leave it", gave a low level stim, and Stella left it. The other lady was so amazed. She didn't see the e collar I had in my pocket. I did tell her about Lou's website before going on my way.....

Kathy
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