CGC - now that I've done it, let's talk :D - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-16-2012, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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CGC - now that I've done it, let's talk :D

Since I've been told that I can't say anything negative about the CGC because I've never done it with my own dogs and don't know how hard it is to train for it. Let's talk about it.

First off, let me say that I do not want to diminish any and all efforts of anyone they put into their dogs. There are certainly dogs out there that need more work than others. Dog Reactivity, Separation Anxiety, etc.

However, I do not believe that the CGC is a suitability test to test a dog if they are breedworthy and there have been numerous discussions about breeders that only put the CGC on their dog and then think they have a breedworthy dog. It's NOT a title!

Since yesterday, Yukon has his CGC. I've never even trained for it. He's retired, knows very basic obedience, nothing special, hasn't trained in about half a year, is very very velcro with me and most of you know his history.
My SAR Tester also is a CGC Tester. So throughout the day she saw him in many different, real-life situations. How he acts when he goes through a crowd of people, how he acts towards other dogs, how his re-call is, sit, down, how she can take him out of my hand, he can be petted by total strangers, brushing not a problem. Overall, he is just a super well behaved dog and I barely put any Obedience on him at all. It's just the way he is. He has an outstanding temperament and even with loud noises, he doesn't jump, he recovered himself from his bad experiences all by himself.
She took a shovel and literally hit on the concrete right in front of him. Loud Thunder above us... ATV's (four wheelers and all the other busy going of the Team training, teenagers etc.) not an issue at all and between all that, he absolved his CGC.

What I did not know is that you are allowed to talk to your dog at all times and give hand-signals on top of that. So if you have a medi-ocre stay you can still walk back, with your hand up, talking to the dog "Stay, Stay, Stay." and hoping he stays. If he does, you've got it.

That would be an absolute NO-GO in the BH.

So overall, the BH is a much harder test just because of the routine. You do the whole routine on leash, than you have to do it off leash. It takes a heck of a lot of concentration for the dog and handler whereas for the CGC the dog doesn't require that level of concentration plus you are allowed to talk and give hand signals on top of that. So you can actually influence your dog a lot more than with the BH. You don't have the long downstay that is required for the BH.

Both tests have parts that are not easy to pass. A dog reactive dog might have a hard time with the CGC and the BH but overall, I strongly believe that if you pass the CGC you won't pass the BH, however 98% of the dogs who pass the BH WILL pass the CGC.

Last edited by Mrs.K; 07-16-2012 at 10:32 AM.
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post #2 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-16-2012, 10:37 AM
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I didn't know anyone was using the CGC as a breed worthiness test. That's a real stretch, as you stated. However, I don't dismiss the CGC as a worthless test. The CGC is literally the very thing that got me into working my dog in the first place. Prior to "training" for the CGC, I'd never trained my dog for anything. It was a fantastic jumping off point for other training.

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post #3 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-16-2012, 10:38 AM
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I think the CGC / CGN is a respectable basic temperament test. Of course it is not a test to determine breeding suitability - it is very basic - but I think it is a great little accomplishment to see on a dog. In Canada, the CGN is indeed considered a title and appears on a pedigree.

I also think it is a great title for people new to dogs / training to achieve - it was the first title I ever put on a dog myself, so I am quite proud.

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post #4 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-16-2012, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildo View Post
I didn't know anyone was using the CGC as a breed worthiness test. That's a real stretch, as you stated. However, I don't dismiss the CGC as a worthless test. The CGC is literally the very thing that got me into working my dog in the first place. Prior to "training" for the CGC, I'd never trained my dog for anything. It was a fantastic jumping off point for other training.
It's not a worthless test at all. That is not what I wanted to say.


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I think the CGC / CGN is a respectable basic temperament test. Of course it is not a test to determine breeding suitability - it is very basic - but I think it is a great little accomplishment to see on a dog. In Canada, the CGN is indeed considered a title and appears on a pedigree.
I think the CGC can be linked to the AKC number too, can't it?

Anyhow, I think for beginners who never really done anything the CGC is a great jump off into the world of sport. But it's just not something I would consider as advanced or really anything that is hard to train for, for established people.

And since there has been the discussion of what is harder, the CGC or the BH. From what I've seen yesterday, there is absolutely no question that the CGC is nowhere near on the same level as the BH. Any BH dog should pass the CGC but you just won't pass the BH if all you've done is trained for the CGC.
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post #5 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-16-2012, 10:44 AM
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I don't think anything you wrote is up for debate.


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post #6 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-16-2012, 10:45 AM
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I also think it is not even close to a breedworthy test, but I think it is a basic title dogs should be able to acquire. It is mostly just basic manners in the human world--some dogs will be able to pass it with no training, really, those are the ones with excellent temperament. Others need training, but if that's the case, they definitely need the title to be well-behaved members of society.
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post #7 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-16-2012, 11:10 AM
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My 7 month old puppy passed her CGC with NO training for it.

I do think it's a good basic temperament test, and every dog SHOULD be able to pass it, but as a breedworthiness test? I would like to see breeders put a bit more pressure on their dogs, truly test their mettle. The Doberman people seem to make good use of the TT, which I think is a better test. I don't think the CGC is enough to base good breeding decsions from.
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post #8 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-16-2012, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs.K View Post

I think the CGC can be linked to the AKC number too, can't it?
STAR puppy can be as well.

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post #9 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-16-2012, 11:55 AM
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Never in a million years would I connect the CGC to being a breed worthy test. It's a fun goal for pet owners to work towards with their dogs...any dog breed.

I have seen some dogs have it as young as 5 months old which is cool but try it again at a year old and see how they do when they are more mature.

Having said that...I would hate this thread to turn into the CGC is worthless because it's a good starting point for basics.
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post #10 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-16-2012, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Courtney View Post

Having said that...I would hate this thread to turn into the CGC is worthless because it's a good starting point for basics.
I don't think anyone is saying it's "worthless". The CGC is definitely a good thing, but it's not the only thing, and I'd like to see GSDs acheive more than that if they are to be bred. If we were talking about a toy breed or a strictly "companion" breed, things might be different--I wouldn't expect a Maltese to excel in SchH.
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