Shock Collar Training - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 07-05-2012, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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Shock Collar Training

We are at wits end with Duke. He is in his second round of professional training and he is still very stubborn. There are a handfull of things we are working on. The most annoying thing is his chasing people when they jump in the pool. He gets really excited when someone is about to jump in, charging them and barking as they jump. He just can't help himself. On a more serious side, he can be aggressive and we fear he will bite that person he does not like for some reason. The prof trainer agrees that he will bite someone. He does not like the trainer and this makes our training sessions impossible. The trainer wants to go with a shock collar and promises instant training. I tend to believe the results will be instantaneous as we have the electric fence and it was instant training.

I am wondering what you all think of shock collar training.
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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 07-05-2012, 08:03 AM
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Properly done, training with an ecollar can be very good. Improperly done it is a disaster. Look up Lou Castle for one idea of thoughtful, proper ecollar training.

Just calling it shock collar implies the high stim method that can really backfire. And, the fact that your trainer promises "instant training" concerns me. Look up Lou Castle's site. What have you done for the problem so far?

The one thing I would do is PUT HIM UP when guests are swimming and work on self control slowly...I am not going to give advice here because this is out of my league and probably out of the league of most folks who will post on the topic.

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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 07-05-2012, 08:07 AM
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I don't think this is about using an e-collar or any other tool. I think this is about expectations, management and relationship.

Expectations - you know he can't help himself, so every time you expose him and he does the behavior, he is being reinforced and he is being set up to fail. So find a way to work around this - I don't know the exact situation of the pool, but try to figure something out.

Management - if he is a potential biter - you need to manage that behavior because truly you will always have a potential biter. So again, setting up for success and being his protector will be huge in this.

Relationship - he is more than likely not stubborn. He could be throwing out calming signals, Calming signals gallery he could be confused, he could be afraid, but I have rarely met a "stubborn" GSD, and particularly not a male that has their own agenda. I have met GSDs smarter than me (MILA!) who I have to work double time to get them to comply, I have met GSDs who were in survival mode because of other methods of training, but they are really dogs who want to work with you.

Please check this out: http://www.bestfriends.org/theanimal...iptraining.pdf

I would go way back to the basics and find someone in your area to work with - you could contact Suzanne Clothier to see if she has worked with anyone there - and start with this. Suzanne Clothier | Relationship Centered Dog Training





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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 07-05-2012, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanKBBMMMAAN View Post
I don't think this is about using an e-collar or any other tool. I think this is about expectations, management and relationship.

Expectations - you know he can't help himself, so every time you expose him and he does the behavior, he is being reinforced and he is being set up to fail. So find a way to work around this - I don't know the exact situation of the pool, but try to figure something out.

Management - if he is a potential biter - you need to manage that behavior because truly you will always have a potential biter. So again, setting up for success and being his protector will be huge in this.

Relationship - he is more than likely not stubborn. He could be throwing out calming signals, Calming signals gallery he could be confused, he could be afraid, but I have rarely met a "stubborn" GSD, and particularly not a male that has their own agenda. I have met GSDs smarter than me (MILA!) who I have to work double time to get them to comply, I have met GSDs who were in survival mode because of other methods of training, but they are really dogs who want to work with you.

Please check this out: http://www.bestfriends.org/theanimal...iptraining.pdf

I would go way back to the basics and find someone in your area to work with - you could contact Suzanne Clothier to see if she has worked with anyone there - and start with this. Suzanne Clothier | Relationship Centered Dog Training

Excellent advice!

ADCH Mikko (USDAA) SCH-B; (NADAC) EAC, EJC, TN-E, TG-E, VerO; (AKC) NAJ, CGC; (NACSW) NW1 - 9 year old GSD

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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 07-05-2012, 09:16 AM
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Totally agree with Jean. Also I'm leery of anyone that advertises "instant" results.
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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 07-05-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanKBBMMMAAN View Post
I don't think this is about using an e-collar or any other tool. I think this is about expectations, management and relationship.

Expectations - you know he can't help himself, so every time you expose him and he does the behavior, he is being reinforced and he is being set up to fail. So find a way to work around this - I don't know the exact situation of the pool, but try to figure something out.

Management - if he is a potential biter - you need to manage that behavior because truly you will always have a potential biter. So again, setting up for success and being his protector will be huge in this.

Relationship - he is more than likely not stubborn. He could be throwing out calming signals, Calming signals gallery he could be confused, he could be afraid, but I have rarely met a "stubborn" GSD, and particularly not a male that has their own agenda. I have met GSDs smarter than me (MILA!) who I have to work double time to get them to comply, I have met GSDs who were in survival mode because of other methods of training, but they are really dogs who want to work with you.

Please check this out: http://www.bestfriends.org/theanimal...iptraining.pdf

I would go way back to the basics and find someone in your area to work with - you could contact Suzanne Clothier to see if she has worked with anyone there - and start with this. Suzanne Clothier | Relationship Centered Dog Training
I also agree 100% with the above.

Only I'd add EXERCISE to your day with this dog. How many MILES of exercise is this dog getting each week? Not time in a fenced yard. But 'worn out and curled in a ball' exercise? Chuckit, miles of hiking, swimming?

I know it's not fair to ask my dogs to listen/learn/obey when they are bouncing off the walls. And when they are it is MY fault they misbehave, not theirs.

BTW, 'obedience' should not be our goals for our dogs. Instead, we need to build a relationship with them (means work for US) so our dogs want to interact and listen/learn/obey. For most of this, our dogs shouldn't even need a leash let alone an e-collar. And since they need to listen/learn/obey us then this is something WE need to work on (not have a trainer take our dog away).

Really LISTEN to what the guy is saying, and then watch how the dog/handler interact:


Have you looked into clicker training? Another way for US to learn to interact and work with our dogs without forcing them with a leash/collar. https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...t-puppies.html and adult dogs!





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