Zak George, and why Cesar is a trainer of the past - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-23-2012, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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post #2 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-23-2012, 04:50 PM
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I think Zak is a little too full of himself. Trying to make CM look bad doesn't make Zak look good in my opinion, and contrary to what he seems to think, he isn't the first trainer to use positive reinforcement.

I'd like to see how he'd handle a group of dogs that all suffered from fear aggression, dominance issues etc. The skills you need to teach a dog to play ball or sit are not the same as the ones you would need to rehabilitate a dog that suffered from OCD etc.
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post #3 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-23-2012, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Well I would not rehab a fearful dog by choking it out. Glad to see education on that anyway

And actually redirection works wonders for OCD dogs...what's the "etc"?
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post #4 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-23-2012, 05:18 PM
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Although he has some good ideas... they are not "new" ideas, and I do not like his attitude. I don't believe him and I would be on good terms if left in the same room together to listen to his "higher then thou" attitude.

What makes a trainer, in my opinion, is working on dogs with behavior issues... and how they do so, along with the outcomes. My 7 year old niece can train a ton of different tricks to my dogs and her ferret.... So, for a "professional" that means nothing to me. All you need for that is to be creative (think outside the box) and a good understanding of dog psychology and how they think and perceive things.

I can watch CM and not feel like I want to punch him in his face.... this guy.... That 9 min. was rough! lol! It was also incredibly unprofessional of him to put CM down.... he could have went without that.

Otherwise... positive reinforcement works wonders with many dogs. So I have nothing against his methods. I just couldn't stand listening to him all day.

Thanks for sharing the video though... the dogs were certainly adorable! Loved watching the dog bowling!

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post #5 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-23-2012, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msvette2u View Post
And actually redirection works wonders for OCD dogs...what's the "etc"?
Maybe OCD was a bad example but I'm pretty sure you know the many problems dogs can suffer from and that there's a difference between a trainer and behaviorist. I don't have a problem with PR, I use it, and I don't think CM is perfect. Actually I think some of his methods are outdated BUT he does know how to read dogs.

What I do have a problem with is Zaks cocky know it all attitude and the fact that he can't promote his training methods without bashing someone elses. Not classy, not cool, not impressive.
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post #6 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-23-2012, 05:53 PM
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If Zak is as good as he says he is, he doesn't need to make reference to anyone and just promote and explain why his methods are the best.

People who bully and bash are insecure people themselves. Or if not, they are just plain mean.
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post #7 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-23-2012, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Bear L View Post
If Zak is as good as he says he is, he doesn't need to make reference to anyone and just promote and explain why his methods are the best.

People who bully and bash are insecure people themselves. Or if not, they are just plain mean.
Agree on both points

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post #8 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-23-2012, 06:41 PM
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i love CM. and i would love to see how this guy would treat a dog attacking him..i like most of what CM does because it makes sense to the dog in dog world...and it gets people to treat their dogs as dogs and not little babies
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post #9 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-23-2012, 06:49 PM
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While I can somewhat agree with some of the things he says and does in this video, I cannot accept the fact that he feels the need to verbally abuse another person and put down their way of training because it differs from his own.

I agree with Bear L on their comment in regards to promoting and explaining his methods. There are plenty of people that I do not agree with on certain subjects that I find my methods to be better. To promote how I do something, is it needed to bully or target others? No.

I think that it is great that he would like the public to use more positive reinforcement when dealing with their dogs. Wonderful. However, 100% PR does not necessarily ALWAYS work with EVERY dog. Just as with every subject regarding dogs and animals in general, what works for one person and/or dog may not necessarily work for another. It doesn't matter the breed, age, gender, location, background, history (I could go on and on regarding personalities and demographics) are all the same of the animal(s) in question - they will not necessarily respond the same to the exact same methods.

I think that this man, in general, regards himself much higher than he should. I will repeat that it is wonderful that he is attempting to promote positive reinforcement as the 'new training style' (even though, as others have stated, it's not new - just being reintroduced as such), but to put himself on such a high pedestal and to shoot others down into the gutter is not right in my opinion.

As a side note, I'm not a huge fan of how much he says you have to really be down on the dog's level, in it's face, to make it concentrate on you while doing a task such as standing on the guy's back. Most dogs aren't exactly comfortable with humans being in their faces and right at their level as such.

EDIT: Also as a side note, from the episodes of CM's show that I have seen, the dogs in question are usually the outliers of dogs in society. They are the ones that have a bad/abusive past, have some sort of major training issue (and I don't just mean "my dog likes to jump on me, it's annoying"), or can be labeled (by the standards put forth by the SPCA and other humane society organizations) as aggressive. The ones that this man seems to be talking about are your run of the mill family pet that someone either wants to train to have basic manners and obedience and without such would just be an annoyance or frustration, but not anything dangerous or extremely disruptive to society. I could be wrong, but from this video and what I have seen of CM those are the main differences in the types of animals that are being dealt with. If CM were to take an 'average' dog that was just needing some basic manners, I doubt the response from the public and this man on CM's training methods would be as outrageous (because I doubt CM's methods would be as harsh as they currently are when dealing with the majority of the dogs that I have seen on his shows).

Anyway, the above is my personal opinion, so please refrain from dissecting it and making me out to be a bad person if you feel it necessary to respond to my reply.

Lauren, proud owner of:
Alexandria ("Alex") - GSD (June 9, 2010)
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post #10 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-23-2012, 10:32 PM
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I won't get into the CM vs Zak thing. What I do know is if Zak decided to get up close and personal with Woolf, Woolf would have him for breakfast.

He did post on his FB page that he was looking for dogs in the ATL area for YouTube videos, left a post if he would consider a FA dog. Of course that would be if he signed releases should his 'in their face' training backfires
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