Details/Big Picture..which should be taught first? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-02-2012, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
Master Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Gettysburg,PA
Posts: 885
Details/Big Picture..which should be taught first?

There are two fundamental ways of teaching a dog ; details first that accumulate to the big picture, or big picture first with the details filled in as the dog progresses.
Which do you do and why?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Art

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Zahnburg is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-03-2012, 12:03 AM
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: georgia
Posts: 4,262
Interesting topic. Personally, I am big picture, then details.

Most of the dogs I see that are really flashy and fancy, are taught details first though.

I can't wait to see which posters do what!
gagsd is offline  
post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-03-2012, 07:26 AM
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Nashville, TN and Budapest HU
Posts: 4,518
Details and foundation 1st, But, it helps seeing the big picture and having explained how it is broken down. But always details 1st.

Daughter's tennis coach is same way.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Smithie86 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-03-2012, 07:44 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jeff. County, NY
Posts: 9,001
When we started with the Obedience Training, the first thing our trainer made all of us do, was the Crate Games. First impulse control and that helped a LOT with pretty much anything we do right now. So the foundation is impulse control which also helps to get the dogs motivation up and flashy.

From there we went to sit and down, now we are doing the re-call and heeling. It's all about shaping and attention to detail and precision, however, the big picture, I'd say is impulse control, that's the foundation. At the very beginning I couldn't see that and I was like "WTH do we need that for, but now I can tell the difference, it does make a huge difference in the training and every day world.

Last edited by Mrs.K; 05-03-2012 at 07:49 AM.
Mrs.K is offline  
post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-03-2012, 08:13 AM
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 19,496
I start by teaching my dogs how I'm going to teach them, I guess that falls under big picture? I teach them really easy stuff introducing the various methods I like to use. In this stage the goal is not so much teaching the actual command as perfectly as possible but getting the dog used to working, using various drives during the work, and getting the dog accustomed to the methods and tools. For example, if I'm "heeling" a 3 month old puppy around in tight circles by pushing bits of food out of my left hand, I'm not actually training the puppy to heel I'm trying to teach him how to keep his body straight and collect in the rear. Instead of training a precise heel at that age I'm training a bigger picture concept of "you have a butt, this is how you can control it."

Last edited by Liesje; 05-03-2012 at 08:15 AM.
Liesje is offline  
post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-03-2012, 09:12 AM
Administrator & LOTR Addict
 
lhczth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Bloomington, IN, USA
Posts: 18,687
I actually teach a little of both at the same time with the retrieves and the jumping leaning the most heavily towards details first.

Lisa Clark

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

SG1 Deja IPO3 AWD1 KKL1 B/HOT, SG Elena IPO1 KKL CGC B/HOT, LB (the ugly little sable) IPO2 KKL B/HOT, and gone but not forgotten,
Vala SchH3 AWD1 FH2 CGC B/HOT, Donovan IPO1 TR2 AD, Nike SchH1 OB1 TR3 AD CGC HOT, Treue SchH3 CD CGC HOT



lhczth is offline  
post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-03-2012, 09:20 AM
Crowned Member
 
cliffson1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,446
Sport....details first, people are seeking scores when details often determine results. Law Enforcement....big picture....the methodology and details of performance are secondary to the end result. Time is issue in learning, and training must progress at speed to not allow for detail oriented methodology.
Tracking is an excellent example of what I am saying.
cliffson1 is offline  
post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-03-2012, 09:24 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jeff. County, NY
Posts: 9,001
mhmm... so could one say that impulse control is part of the details rather than the big picture?
Mrs.K is offline  
post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-03-2012, 09:54 AM
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Nashville, TN and Budapest HU
Posts: 4,518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
I start by teaching my dogs how I'm going to teach them, I guess that falls under big picture? I teach them really easy stuff introducing the various methods I like to use. In this stage the goal is not so much teaching the actual command as perfectly as possible but getting the dog used to working, using various drives during the work, and getting the dog accustomed to the methods and tools. For example, if I'm "heeling" a 3 month old puppy around in tight circles by pushing bits of food out of my left hand, I'm not actually training the puppy to heel I'm trying to teach him how to keep his body straight and collect in the rear. Instead of training a precise heel at that age I'm training a bigger picture concept of "you have a butt, this is how you can control it."

I think it is how your see it. To me, that is foundation (or details). Building on the foundation of what you want it to be. Any of that would is done with the overall picture in mind.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Smithie86 is offline  
post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-03-2012, 10:12 AM
Elite Member
 
FG167's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 1,676
Details first. I guess I'm unsure what the "big picture" would be? I don't necessarily want my dogs to *know* what the big picture is LOL I want them to be concerned with the details and doing each thing with me and then the big picture should all come together nicely from there. If they "know" the big picture, at least Kastle, tries to jump straight to what he thinks I am looking for. I want him to just pay attention to the little things that I am actually asking for.

I taught heeling with the nitty gritty basics first - luring in position with support to get a straight and correctly positioned puppy. Then I did focus in heel position, then one step, then two steps etc etc Then I heeled in a straight line. Then I taught rear-end awareness that led to the left turn step-by-step and then heeled in a line with the left turn etc etc etc.
FG167 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome