Started new ob classes and they confused the heck out of me! - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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Started new ob classes and they confused the heck out of me!

We stared more obedience classes with Molly with a different training facility.CKC(Canadian kennel Club). They have a totally 100% positive training method. They told us no leash corrections allowed, we can not be negative in any way(can't say the word NO), not allowed prong, pinch.... collars. With the last trainer we learnt in a positive manner(treat or toy reward) but we used leash corrections and we trained with a prong.

How are you suppose to correct unwanted behavior?

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post #2 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 03:45 PM
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We have a SchH club member who does rally and CKC obedience with her dogs - just go along with the class, and when you are training on your own, use whatever correction you feel you need to proof the behaviour.

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post #3 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Miss Molly May View Post
We stared more obedience classes with Molly with a different training facility.CKC(Canadian kennel Club). They have a totally 100% positive training method. They told us no leash corrections allowed, we can not be negative in any way(can't say the word NO), not allowed prong, pinch.... collars. With the last trainer we learnt in a positive manner(treat or toy reward) but we used leash corrections and we trained with a prong.

How are you suppose to correct unwanted behavior?

By changing to another class!
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post #4 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Molly May View Post
We stared more obedience classes with Molly with a different training facility.CKC(Canadian kennel Club). They have a totally 100% positive training method. They told us no leash corrections allowed, we can not be negative in any way(can't say the word NO), not allowed prong, pinch.... collars. With the last trainer we learnt in a positive manner(treat or toy reward) but we used leash corrections and we trained with a prong.

How are you suppose to correct unwanted behavior?
Unless it was literally my only option, I probably wouldn't stick around..

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post #5 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
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Unless it was literally my only option, I probably wouldn't stick around..
We have very, very limited resources up here! I am open minded to different training methods and will give them a chance! I guess it will be another learning curve for us!

RIP Velcro 9years old (September 22, 2011)
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post #6 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 04:13 PM
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I say take the class & give it a try.

I do like a good leash pop every now & then...it wold be hard not to be able to do that! LOL
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post #7 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 05:03 PM
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Don't knock it until you've tried it! I have used just about every method in the book but I trained Rafi without a prong, collar or leash corrections. In fact, I trained him primarily with play! I have also been retraining my partner's 9 yo dog using similar methods and she has come a long way in 2 years.

Generally people who are purely positive use redirection instead of corrections. Check out Pat Miller's books and articles. She is an excellent trainer and her instructions are very clear.

I used to be almost purely positive but have gotten lazy recently. :-( Rafi is super biddable and doesn't need corrections. In fact, it slows down his learning when I get sharp with him.

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post #8 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 05:04 PM
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Can't even tell a dog "no"??? If it were me, I'd drop the class.

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post #9 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 05:38 PM
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Can't even tell a dog "no"??? .
It hurts their feelings.
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post #10 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-14-2012, 05:52 PM
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Don't knock it until you've tried it! I have used just about every method in the book but I trained Rafi without a prong, collar or leash corrections. In fact, I trained him primarily with play! I have also been retraining my partner's 9 yo dog using similar methods and she has come a long way in 2 years.

Generally people who are purely positive use redirection instead of corrections. Check out Pat Miller's books and articles. She is an excellent trainer and her instructions are very clear.

I used to be almost purely positive but have gotten lazy recently. :-( Rafi is super biddable and doesn't need corrections. In fact, it slows down his learning when I get sharp with him.
Your last sentence is the key! For some dogs PO will probably work ok although it might it be slower and less reliable in some cases (this last from JEAN DONALDSON herself).

BUT, PO training will not work very well, if at all, for some dogs for some behaviors for some trainers. That is FACT.

A softer more submissive dog will often do pretty well with PO training. A hard headed, more independent, more confident dog will often decide that he wants to do what HE wants to do when he wants to do it; and the redirection and/or treat is not nearly as interesting as what he wants to do at the moment. SO then what does the trainer do?

That is, what does the trainer do if the thing the dog is doing, is much more attractive than what you want him to do?

And please don't say, as I have heard MSO ANY times "Get a higher value treat", unless you can tell me a higher value treat than a small piece of raw meat!

Corrections work! And done right also result in a VERY happy working dog as well as a Reliable dog!

And personally in my case with Baron (4+ yo male GSD with a few DA issues) a much more sociable dog!

Even Jean Donaldson in one of her books says that PO training will result in a slower to teach and less reliable result for some things.
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