Learned a new trick for my training bag - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-04-2012, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
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Learned a new trick for my training bag

In dog years I'm, well lets not add it up and just say I found out this old dog can be taught a new trick.
I've never really believed in the clicker type training, I've always used corrections with the collars, I use treats too when they do something right, but it was more correcting when they did wrong to get them to do right. Hope that makes sense.
I was having some trouble with Frank, the methods I'd always used just seemed to amp him up and not fix the behaviour, the book "Control Unleashed" was suggested to me. I bought the book and the dvd set.
It must of been like a light bulb in a cartoon went off over my head when I started using the techniques in the book.
I still use some of my old methods too, I've blended them together with the clicker training he's now learning. Things like he'll still wear his prong in public till I'm sure he doesn't need it, but I'm finding myself resorting to correcting him with it less and less.

Guess I just wanted to write this to encourage people that even if the same type of training has worked for 20 years, dont' knock trying something new you never know what will come out of it.

frank(Rosehall's Duke of Hearts CD, BN, RN) gsd
indy (Indy Bluestorm CD, GN, RN,CGC) BC
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Rowdy (MyHearts Red Treasure) Australian Shepherd
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-04-2012, 02:16 PM
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Guess I just wanted to write this to encourage people that even if the same type of training has worked for 20 years, dont' knock trying something new you never know what will come out of it.

Just because something works doesn't mean that something else wouldn't work even better! Good for you for having an open mind and trying new things.

-Debbie-
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Keefer 8/25/05-4/24/19 ~ The sweetest boy
Halo 11/9/08-6/17/18 ~ You left pawprints on our hearts
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-04-2012, 02:30 PM
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I've never really believed in the clicker type training, I've always used corrections with the collars, I use treats too when they do something right, but it was more correcting when they did wrong to get them to do right. Hope that makes sense.
I'm definitely not anti-correction, but I've found that the best and fastest way to teach my dogs what I don't want them to do is often to show them what I DO want them to do instead, and that's by marking and rewarding the behavior I want to reinforce.

No matter what you're trying to teach your dog there's always going to be a lot of stuff he does that isn't that, but only one thing that IS that. Saying "yes - that!" when your dog does what you want is much clearer to him than repeatedly saying "no, not that, or that, or that, or that....." each time he doesn't do what you want or does something else instead.

An example would be trying to teach your dog to sit on cue by correcting him when he doesn't sit - if he stands there and looks at you, or turns his head away, or lays down, or walks away, or barks, or scratches his side - all of these are not sit, but how would correcting him for doing them teach him what sit means? A leash correction for pulling doesn't really teach what loose leash walking is either.

-Debbie-
Cava 1/6/18
Keefer 8/25/05-4/24/19 ~ The sweetest boy
Halo 11/9/08-6/17/18 ~ You left pawprints on our hearts
Dena 9/12/04-10/4/08 ~ Forever would have been too short
Cassidy 6/8/00-10/4/04
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-04-2012, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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I had come to the point where I felt like I was continually correcting him and not getting to praise him, I never had that problem when training dogs before.
After a while we would both be wore out, frustrated and still feel like we didnt' get anything accomplished.
He's catching on very fast to the clicker, and the LAT game, I've taken a step back in my training so we can go forward and it seems to really be working for Frank.
Doesnt' mean I'll never use a collar correction again, just means now I have another way to train too.

frank(Rosehall's Duke of Hearts CD, BN, RN) gsd
indy (Indy Bluestorm CD, GN, RN,CGC) BC
king bc mix
Rowdy (MyHearts Red Treasure) Australian Shepherd
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-04-2012, 07:02 PM
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I think the LAT game works great.
And clicker is so non-emotional, no frustration in that sound.
I swear the age of 2 is a hard one, because the dog is independent enough to think on its own, but not mature enough to make the right choices in all situations.
At 3 everything is so much easier! My male was so biddable, we had very little problems, but now that he's maturing I see such a difference in our training. Some of it is my maturing as a handler, but it is also his brain clicking.

Jane~
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-04-2012, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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I was just thinking I see everyone on here talk about the teenage stage at around
8-12 mos. but the stage Frank is going through now at almost 2 seems to be harder then what we went through then.
I'm glad it's not just me and to hear 3 is easier hope it is for us too. No matter what we'll keep truckin along till we get there.

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indy (Indy Bluestorm CD, GN, RN,CGC) BC
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-04-2012, 07:28 PM
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Karlo never really went thru a teenage stage, he was(is) a great dog, very biddable. But just seeing him as he matures shows how he can control himself more now while doing protection and obedience, yet he does it with more enthusiasm than ever. Probably because the stress of having to make decisions is not so intense? He knows what is expected now and knows there may be consequences if he chooses not to do what is asked.
The consequences for him is *no reward* more often than a correction.

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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-04-2012, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Cassidy's Mom View Post
I'm definitely not anti-correction, but I've found that the best and fastest way to teach my dogs what I don't want them to do is often to show them what I DO want them to do instead, and that's by marking and rewarding the behavior I want to reinforce.
This is what I learned in Obedience classes with Keeta, and it was like a huge light-bulb going off both in my head and Keeta's head. Before that, I was like Franksmom, trying to force my will on Keeta, and it seemed we were always locked in a battle of wills. I used to be anti-treat training because I felt that is was bribing your dog, and the dog should just automatically defer to you and want to obey, because you said so.

I was getting nowhere with Keeta, except frustrated, so I admitted defeat and signed up for a class - oh boy! WHAT a difference! It was like someone reached into her brain and threw a switch - suddenly, she WANTED to do as I asked, and trying to figure out what she was supposed to do for her reward was like the best game ever! It really showed me how dogs learn, and how to motivate them to want to learn. Sign me up too in the "Old (human) dogs learning new tricks" club!

Lucia


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