Is NILIF a nasty dog training tool? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
View Poll Results: Do you train your dog using NILIF?
Yes 34 65.38%
No 18 34.62%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
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Is NILIF a nasty dog training tool?

I tried NILIF with my dog when he first began displaying dominance issues. I based this training off of a book I read-but we never made it very far. My dog has a very stubborn streak in him and even though he knows how to sit-at the time he would not obey on the first command. When he was a puppy he was not very food driven and so he would much rather walk away and not eat at all than obey the command to sit. After attempting this I realized that he very well may miss quite a few meals before he would comply so I just went ahead and set his food down anyways after he had missed one meal for not listening-I just could not leave him without eating.

He does sit and politely waits for his food now but I trained him to obey the command by using tasty treats and rewarding him for good behavior instead of denying him resources for bad behavior. I came across this article, so what are your thoughts on it?

Is NILIF Nasty? | Dog Star Daily

*US Army Mom*


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post #2 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 10:22 PM
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I didn't vote, because I have used it,
but don't consistently use it(for a foster or new dog, maybe, yes)
I do practice it with my kids however!
The link you posted had a blog with opinions.
I liked this one, it is the same as mine:

Only 1 tool? Really?
On May 28th, 2010 Sumiso says:
I always find discussions like this fasciating. I'm not a BA in whatever or a CPDT, but I use a variety of tools and principals depending on the situation and the dog. I've always viewed NILF as a tool, but not a program really. Most people don't have the kind of dedication required to take away everything a dog wants/desires and make them earn it. But really is there fault in requesting a sit before a dog takes off out the door?

NILF (which is an awful name, considering what *else* appears when you google it), is just a tool guys. There are lots of them. Not every tool works for every dog. Just as a hyperfood-motivated dog becomes brain dead when doing lure work, there are some dogs that will shrink when any social pressure is applied. In addition, not every handler can use every tool. Not every handler has a great timing to using shaping effectivly - like me.

In performance work, we know to beware the trainer who only has one tool to solve a problem. I'd hope that the training community can think broadly enough to help its members have multiple tools to address issues in a household using a variety of tools effectivly. Life is too short to pick fights.

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Last edited by onyx'girl; 01-13-2012 at 10:31 PM.
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post #3 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 10:27 PM
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Just like every other training tool... There are people who do not understand it, abuse and/or take it too far. But, no, NILIF done correctly is not a nasty training tool.

The good part of that article is that it recognizes that the "pack leader" stuff is crap.

Last edited by gsdraven; 01-13-2012 at 10:30 PM. Reason: phone errors
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post #4 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
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The person who wrote that blog is Kelly Gorman Dunbar-here is a link that describes who she is. Kelly Gorman Dunbar

Here is a portion of her blog-

"It’s a lot of work. More work than most people have the time or inclination for, because if you are going to limit your dog from the joys of life without your exclusive involvement you better **** well make sure that you’re spending a lot of time with your dog, getting him out and making sure his physical and mental needs are being met on a daily basis. It’s very easy for a dog to become neglected in this type of situation if the handler is lazy, not careful, of becomes desensitized to a dog living in a box. In its worst form dogs are put away like sports equipment when not being “used”.
While there are some circumstances where NILIF can be employed skillfully and may be an occasional wise tool of choice (never say never), I also believe that it can be abused or become the hallmark of lazy training. Not lazy in the sense that it’s easy, I’ve already said that it’s a lot of work to properly care for and train a dog under these conditions time wise, but lazy in a sense of creativity and relationship with a dog. It’s relatively easy to get a dog to do your biding or find you the most interesting thing in the world when he’s got absolutely nothing else going on in his life, no free will and no options."

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post #5 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 10:29 PM
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I put no, though there may be things in NILIF that I use. I really don't know because I have never really persued it.

However, from what I have read, it seems like a non-confrontational type of leadership that helps dog owners build a better relationship with their dog or dogs. I haven't ever heard of any dog being screwed up because the owners used NILIF methods. And any method of training can be misinterpreted and poorly applied.

I think that most of the time dogs can thrive in any situation where there is structure, patience, consistency, training, and exercise. Some of us need some type of guide or map in one or more of those areas. And lots of dogs do fine even though we are less than perfect. For those dogs that need more structure, patience, consistency, training, and exercise, stuck with an owner who needs some type of guide or map, I think that NILIF, is probably better than many others, considering how many people seem to have very positive experiences with it.

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post #6 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 10:30 PM
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I prefer to think of it as "All Good Things Come From Me" rather than "Nothing in Life is Free." The latter makes it sound worse than it is, IMO.
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post #7 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 10:30 PM
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I used it a lot when I first got her. She needed boundaries hardcore. Now I'm a little more relaxed with it, but when she starts getting pushy she starts having to work for everything again, just to reestablish how things are going to go in my house. She does have to sit for her meals, and give me eye contact. She does have to wait until I give her the ok to go out the door. But does she have to work for affection? Nope. That stuff's for free My big thing is balance and fairness. So yes I use NILF, but am I militant about it? No.

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post #8 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 10:31 PM
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This article explains NILIF for those that aren't familiar with it.
Nothing in Life is Free

Jane~
Kept by
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Guinness auf der Marquis...Karlo son!

Always in my heart
Karlo aka Gideon vom Wildhaus
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post #9 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freestep View Post
I prefer to think of it as "All Good Things Come From Me" rather than "Nothing in Life is Free." The latter makes it sound worse than it is, IMO.
I like your concept but AGTCFM doesn't quite roll off the tongue like NILF lol!

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post #10 of 108 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 10:37 PM
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I have never heard of withholding food for bad behavior in regards to NILIF. My dogs never really do any bad behavior though. They simply do doggy things and I don't think they have a concept of bad.
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