Come/Front - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-19-2011, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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Come/Front

In class last week we were doing come exercises, with a twist. Straight recall, she is great, even if I'm on an angle recall and sit in front is good, but, when I turn my back to her and call come she goes to heel position.

I'm trying to get her to come to me and sit in front no matter where I am. So I'm turning my back, calling her, taking a step back, clicking and treating when she sits in front. Any other suggestions. Not going very well.

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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-20-2011, 05:06 AM
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Sounds as if your dog is confused as to what she is supposed to do. From your description she understands the re-call but doesn't really associate a specific position with a specific re-call command. My first recourse for any training problem is take two steps back and start over, to make sure I didn't make some thing cloudy for the dog in the first lessons. worst case scenario, you get a little more practice in, best case, you clear it up in the dogs mind and things improve.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-20-2011, 10:07 AM
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This will take some retraining on your behalf. What you generally want to do is train the positions to their own commands. For example, I use the command "come" to mean come front, regardless of where/how I am standing and/or positioned. I use the command "byheel" to command to a sit in heel position, and command of heel if I'm moving and dog is in a down or sit/stay and is to catch up to me and continue walking in a heel.

Personally, I would start working on this, which will require going back in training for a little while. Isolate your commands to the behavior so the dog can learn there is a difference. For me, I have the dog come front, then tell them to finish, which means go behind me and get in the byheel position. Just telling them byheel does not mean finish. It means move your butt around (IE: dog moves his butt to his right) until you're in a byheel. Does that make sense?
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-20-2011, 10:13 AM
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It's position training same as you might do for heel position. For my dogs Hier is the front position. I spend a fair amount of time teaching them to go from Hier to Fuss and back back again. I do much of this stationary to begin with, making the dog move around me to get into position. And then you can sit and offset the dog just a few feet from different angles and start working the positions.

Be aware that if you work on mastering one for awhile and not the other there's a period where the dog will offer the one thats more familiar. Sort of like sit and down. Work on down a lot and they forget for a bit what sit is. It all comes together though.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-20-2011, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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Great suggestions. I want come to mean come to me from anywhere and sit in front. Just never ever tested it from when I have my back to her.

So when I'm doing the down/sit/stand/heel series I should be working with come too, meaning come to front, once we have it that it is a position.

I have done a fair amount of work working on the come to heel position from a sit and from just calling her to come to heel from any posiion. This is where she must have associated this sitting at heel position.

It's been a while since I've taught a new position. What are the steps to use to position your dog from a sitting heel to a sit in front. Lure? Me stepping backwards? Guiding the leash?
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-20-2011, 04:16 PM
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Depends how you want the dog to move. If you're laid back about it then you can just use a lure and have the dog walk forward and turn in a tight circle. If you want more competition type movement, IE: the dogs hind end is the primary movement with more pivoting on the front end, then you'll need to teach the dog hindend awareness by teaching them to pivot. I use a stock type rubber bucket that I purchased at TSC that's about 8 inches or so high (give or take). Essentially you teach the dog to place their front feet on the bucket while its upside down, and teach them to pivot both ways on their own and in a heel. It sounds goofy, but it teaches the dog how to move the hindend when asked, while only spinning the front feet. Therefore, leading to being able to teach the dog to move in a heel sideways, backwards, and pivot from a comefront to byheel and vice versa. I used a lure and clicker with heavy rewards for place training (my command for putting the front feet on the bucket was "place" but now when Dante sees the bucket he runs right over to it and puts his front paws on it, he knows what's its for).

There are videos out there on it. I researched here on the forum, but I'm pretty sure Michael Ellis has tons of videos on this if I'm not mistaken.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-20-2011, 04:21 PM
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Here's a video. To be fair, I haven't watched the whole thing. Just wanted to find a vid from a reputable trainer so you'd have some idea of what I'm talking about, because when I first heard abotu this stuff on here I was like...what?? I just couldn't picture it or comprehend why it made the dog learn to do these movements.


There is probably a better video out there, but that'll get you started.

With the pivot, my mal picks things up lightening fast, so I moved a little faster than a GSD might. It really depends on the dog. My mal figured out "touch" (I used place) in literally minutes, so I started pivoting into him that day. You might have to spend more sessions training touch before pivoting. It took a week or two for him to under how to pivot into ME. He just didn't get it, but once he did, it clicked.

Last edited by Rerun; 10-20-2011 at 04:27 PM.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-20-2011, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
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Looks like I was on track. I was wondering about the perch work. I've worked with it to try to get her better with left hand turns. Now I will have to reverse it. Off to train.

Thanks.
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