Crowding fuss - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-14-2011, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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Crowding fuss

Anybody got any "tricks" for fixing a crowding fuss? I mean, other than just correcting or rewarding for incorrect or proper position. Currently experimenting with using a 2x12 board elevated off the ground. I think it will work, but compelled me to see if anyone has any other "secrets"

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-14-2011, 11:45 AM
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My dog used to crowd. I would make big big circles to the left as we are heeling and hold a hot dog in my left hand and only let him nibble on it when he's in the correct position. I would keep my left hand at my side (as if sticking the thumb inside the pants). If the dog crowds the hot dog gets pulled up and he gets a verbal correction. As soon as he is back in position the hot dog goes to the same place it was before. That pretty much fixed the crowding behavior and we were able to go back to incorporating eye contact and fussing using a toy as a reward.

Another note: what seemed to cause the crowding was that I was rewarding with the toy from my right hand OR if the toy was in my left armpit I would almost push it forward when releasing it so it landed in front of the dog. Then he started signtracking and crowding to get closer to where he expected the reward to come from. Now I make sure I drop it straight down so that it lands square in the spot I dropped it even if I take a few steps forward.

Hope this helps!
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-14-2011, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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My dog used to crowd. I would make big big circles to the left as we are heeling and hold a hot dog in my left hand and only let him nibble on it when he's in the correct position. I would keep my left hand at my side (as if sticking the thumb inside the pants). If the dog crowds the hot dog gets pulled up and he gets a verbal correction. As soon as he is back in position the hot dog goes to the same place it was before. That pretty much fixed the crowding behavior and we were able to go back to incorporating eye contact and fussing using a toy as a reward.

Another note: what seemed to cause the crowding was that I was rewarding with the toy from my right hand OR if the toy was in my left armpit I would almost push it forward when releasing it so it landed in front of the dog. Then he started signtracking and crowding to get closer to where he expected the reward to come from. Now I make sure I drop it straight down so that it lands square in the spot I dropped it even if I take a few steps forward.

Hope this helps!
We're doing big left circles now, and I'm working on treating further away. Used to treat from my mouth, now rewarding from my armpit. Making progress slowly but surely

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-14-2011, 01:31 PM
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Left turns and lots of them. I usually will do it quickly and basically run over the dog. Will also go and work on finding fuss position in stationary. If they're really clear on where they need to be in stationary they are usually better at finding it in motion.

Also watching my reward position- often when you see a dog crowding or wrapping the reward is coming from the right side or center of the body and is often given forward of the position desirable for the dog. When my dog start forging I will often start to drop their ball on their withers, right behind their head or when I release, I will put the food there in my hand and they have to back up to get it. This way when they anticipate the reward behind them they are less likely to forge when they get impatient.

Also have seen people heel along a fence to keep the dog from swinging out, using their leash and collar correction to keep the dog back.

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-14-2011, 01:40 PM
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Can somebody explain what "crowding" means? Does that mean that he's not going straight?
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-14-2011, 01:54 PM
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Can somebody explain what "crowding" means? Does that mean that he's not going straight?
it means the dog is "cutting" you off by pushing his front side towards you and almost in front. Imagine a dog standing at your left and then making a tight circle around you (going to your right). Those first couple of steps (where he's now facing like 1 o'clock when you are facing 12 o'clock) is crowding. It almost feels like he's constantly in your way. At least that's how I visualize it, but perhaps I'm wrong...
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-14-2011, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JKlatsky View Post
Left turns and lots of them. I usually will do it quickly and basically run over the dog. Will also go and work on finding fuss position in stationary. If they're really clear on where they need to be in stationary they are usually better at finding it in motion.

Also watching my reward position- often when you see a dog crowding or wrapping the reward is coming from the right side or center of the body and is often given forward of the position desirable for the dog. When my dog start forging I will often start to drop their ball on their withers, right behind their head or when I release, I will put the food there in my hand and they have to back up to get it. This way when they anticipate the reward behind them they are less likely to forge when they get impatient.

Also have seen people heel along a fence to keep the dog from swinging out, using their leash and collar correction to keep the dog back.
That's exactly what happened with us. The ball would come from my right side sometimes but most often from my left armpit - but when I released it I released it with a forward motion so even though we were walking forward the dog still had to leap forward to get it. Then he started anticipating the reward coming from the right or from in front and that led to crowding... so I used the methods I talked about in an earlier post to fix that while making sure the reward came straight down (like you said if it was to hit to dog when it fell it would hit him around the butt area)
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-14-2011, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hunterisgreat View Post
We're doing big left circles now, and I'm working on treating further away. Used to treat from my mouth, now rewarding from my armpit. Making progress slowly but surely
Treating from the mouth could have been the trigger, but I don't know without actually seeing the training in progress. When the reward comes from the right side or center the dog will try to get to a better position to grab the reward so he'll naturally move towards your right which leads to crowding. I would reward only from the left hand now and let him nibble on a hot dog or something as long as he's in a correct position. Let us know how it goes!
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-14-2011, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ayoitzrimz View Post
Treating from the mouth could have been the trigger, but I don't know without actually seeing the training in progress. When the reward comes from the right side or center the dog will try to get to a better position to grab the reward so he'll naturally move towards your right which leads to crowding. I would reward only from the left hand now and let him nibble on a hot dog or something as long as he's in a correct position. Let us know how it goes!

Very true. Feeding from the inside of the muzzle could very naturally cause the dog to crowd in. Old photos with Argos as a 10 month old...but this is Claudia Romard working with him at a seminar we went to showing how to work on crowding by controlling the dog with food from the outside of the muzzle. (Kind of wish I had taken the method more to heart at the time, because this is more like what I now do with all my pups). You can see that this reward/lure position keeps him very much off of her and turns his shoulders and butt straighter.








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