Need help with training... - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-05-2010, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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Need help with training...

Ok I have two dogs with the same problem.

Nellie and Ace both try to "pick their tricks out". Ace likes to shake... so when I get the treats and clicker out all he wants to do is sit and shake. When I say "down" he tries to shake. When I give he any command he always trys to shake 1st.

Nellie knows how to sneeze on command. She knows that's one of our favorite things to have her do. So she always tries to do this before any other command.

I don't know how to break them from doing this. When they do the wrong thing I just ingnore it until they give me the one I asked for. Any other ideas?

-Jamie-

No matter how bad my day has been.... coming home to them makes it all better.

My Kids:
Nellie -3 yr old GSD & Ace -2 yr old GSD
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-05-2010, 02:16 PM
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Do you use a negative marker in training? You might try doing that instead of just ignoring it. You definitely don't want to reinforce those behaviors in any way unless you've asked for them, but saying "oops!" or "wrong!" or "nope!" when they do it is a way of imparting the information that that's not what you want and they won't get a reward, sort of a "try again" signal.

I don't like to repeat commands - if I ask for a sit and they just stand there looking at me I wait for the sit rather than saying it over and over until they do, but if they offer a different behavior I'll use a negative marker and then ask for the sit again.

If they've been doing this for a long time it may take awhile to break them of it, but making a big fuss when they get it right should help, throw a verbal party and jackpot by give several treats in succession.

-Debbie-
Cava 1/6/18
Keefer 8/25/05-4/24/19 ~ The sweetest boy
Halo 11/9/08-6/17/18 ~ You left pawprints on our hearts
Dena 9/12/04-10/4/08 ~ Forever would have been too short
Cassidy 6/8/00-10/4/04
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-05-2010, 06:11 PM
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No treats for the behaviors you don't want, only click/treats for the ones that are!

Patience (well, lack of patience ) is my BIGGEST problem with clicker training! But I'm working on it!




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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-05-2010, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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We don't have a negative marker. Maybe we should try that. Thanks to both of you.

-Jamie-

No matter how bad my day has been.... coming home to them makes it all better.

My Kids:
Nellie -3 yr old GSD & Ace -2 yr old GSD
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-05-2010, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
I don't like to repeat commands - if I ask for a sit and they just stand there looking at me I wait for the sit rather than saying it over and over until they do, but if they offer a different behavior I'll use a negative marker and then ask for the sit again.
Even though it's not my topic... just learned something new from reading.
Never worked with negative markers, will definitely try that too because i tend to repeat the commands.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-05-2010, 09:27 PM
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Just be careful..

Should You Use No Reward Markers? Examining the Debate | Karen Pryor Clickertraining




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Miss Osin Blue Wildhaus NA NAJ NF

"Nothing new can come into your life unless you are grateful for what you already have. ~ "--- Michael Bernhard, gratitude
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-05-2010, 09:36 PM
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It's definitely one of those things that not everyone uses. Personally I like to, because I like to give my dogs lots of feedback during training. And Suzanne Clothier I thought summed up the reasoning very well in a weekend seminar I went to a couple of years ago. She was with a group of positive trainers, (and if you know anything about her, she's all about developing a relationship of trust and respect with your dogs and does not like aversives), and bet them that they couldn't train her to do something using positive methods only. They took the bet, and as soon as it started, she got up, walked out of the building and across the street. "No fair!" they said, "how could we teach you anything when you left?". Her response? "You didn't tell me I couldn't".

-Debbie-
Cava 1/6/18
Keefer 8/25/05-4/24/19 ~ The sweetest boy
Halo 11/9/08-6/17/18 ~ You left pawprints on our hearts
Dena 9/12/04-10/4/08 ~ Forever would have been too short
Cassidy 6/8/00-10/4/04
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-06-2010, 10:11 AM
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Great story, I'm going to use it!

And the people were "corrected" in a way, so something like that is what I'd do on Jamie's case: If I ask for a down and I get a shake I'd wait a few seconds, maybe ask a second time and if I get another shake I'd turn and leave the room, leaving the dog wandering what's wrong. After a few times the dog will know that to shake is definitively not what I want.

Diabla Boroluz, my Daemon; IPO-A1, RH-T A
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Calais vom Adler Stein; IPO-A1, Kkl1
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-06-2010, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Catu View Post
Great story, I'm going to use it!

And the people were "corrected" in a way, so something like that is what I'd do on Jamie's case: If I ask for a down and I get a shake I'd wait a few seconds, maybe ask a second time and if I get another shake I'd turn and leave the room, leaving the dog wandering what's wrong. After a few times the dog will know that to shake is definitively not what I want.
I think this is more my style. Because they both are VERY food motivated so I think if they don't get the treat they are going to be fast to wonder why I left.

-Jamie-

No matter how bad my day has been.... coming home to them makes it all better.

My Kids:
Nellie -3 yr old GSD & Ace -2 yr old GSD
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-06-2010, 02:17 PM
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but it doesn't mean you can't use a negative marker, if you use an ah-ah (by example) and then leave the room as the correction, the dog will understand faster why you are leaving him.

Diabla Boroluz, my Daemon; IPO-A1, RH-T A
Akela de Poputchik, my Direwolf; IPO-2, Kkl1
Calais vom Adler Stein; IPO-A1, Kkl1
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