Marker training and luring - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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Marker training and luring

I think one of the best skills I have learned to improve communication and to speed up learning in the dogs is marker training and luring.

Here is a short vid of Michael Ellis working with a student on these skills. The "keep going" communication with "good" is an important concept too.

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 03:43 PM
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Michael has brought luring back in fashion
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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I love luring. Of course, you have to move beyond it but it is one fast way to show the dog the behavior desired and to get the dog's body used to going through the motion. Next, gradual fade, fade, fade of help. It really can make learning quicker. Never had the patience for shaping and actually found it kinda strange... like withholding good information from your dog and insisting they "guess".
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 05:13 PM
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My first dog was trained with saltine crackers (and no leash) as that was the only food I could sneak out of the house. Back then, the theory was you couldn't train a show dog or it would ruin it! Boy, have i proved that wrong.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
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Well, you can't get a "championship" in Germany without having an obedience, tracking and protection title, so I never bought that idea that you can't "multi" train a dog. The dogs showing for top conformation titles all have to have performance titles first. So much for the idea they can't do it all.

Saltines?! Good dog. I think Hogan would say, "you eat the crackers!"
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 07:46 PM
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I like luring too. I think if you have a driven dog, luring works a lot better than free shaping. The dogs want the reward, motivation/interest is not their problem ... so why not cut to the chase and show them what they need to do to get a reward. Besides, like Michael said, if you ask the dog to "down" on his own, 40 percent of the time he will do it in way that you want, 40% of the time he will do it the way he wants, 20% of the time he will do it in a way that makes no sense even to him. With luring, you teach him from the very beginning THIS is the way I want you to sit, down, stand, etc.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason L View Post
Michael has brought luring back in fashion
In some circles it never went out of style. I was introduced to luring and marker/reward training in Cassidy's first class November of 2000, nearly 10 years ago. Since the I've taken a total of 18 classes with 4 dogs, and every single one of them have used those techniques. It just makes so much sense to me to show my dogs what I WANT them to do than to correct them for NOT doing it when I'm training a new behavior.

Shaping doesn't necessarily take a long time, especially if you start by capturing behaviors that the dog is already offering up. It depends on what you're trying to train though, for many things I'd rather just lure, but I love this (unedited) video to show how well shaping can work:


Obviously, this is a clicker savvy dog, who is well acquainted with the concept of offering behaviors to see what works, but still - it's pretty impressive what can be accomplished in a single training session lasting about 3 minutes!

-Debbie-
Cava 1/6/18
Keefer 8/25/05-4/24/19 ~ The sweetest boy
Halo 11/9/08-6/17/18 ~ You left pawprints on our hearts
Dena 9/12/04-10/4/08 ~ Forever would have been too short
Cassidy 6/8/00-10/4/04
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 09:43 PM
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Luring can also be used to teach a dog commands through hand signals. I have used luring to train "fuss," "sitz," and "platz," then faded the hand signals and just used voice commands. After the dog gets really fluent with voice commands, I sometimes use the hand motions I used to lure them into a behavior. I find this useful when I'm out and about in public, where there might be a lot of noise or distractions.

"What's there to dominate when your dog is well trained and it does what you ask??" - DoggieDad
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 09:53 PM
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Hunter's Dad, I do the same thing, for simple behaviors like sit and down I usually only lure a few times, and then I get the food out of that hand and reward with the other hand so the dog isn't dependent on the sight of food to comply. The lure motion then becomes a hand signal, which can be faded into something smaller and less dramatic.

In Halo's Puppy 2 class we worked on sit/down/sit, and stand/down/stand sequences using voice only and hand signals only to be sure that the dogs knew every position from every other position using either voice or hand signals as cues. She was, of course, the star!

-Debbie-
Cava 1/6/18
Keefer 8/25/05-4/24/19 ~ The sweetest boy
Halo 11/9/08-6/17/18 ~ You left pawprints on our hearts
Dena 9/12/04-10/4/08 ~ Forever would have been too short
Cassidy 6/8/00-10/4/04
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 09:54 PM
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Ike is trained 100% with luring and marker. Dottie, however, was an interesting case. When I adopted her last summer, she was completely nuts and untrained. 2 years old and she didn't even know how to sit. And luring did not work at all. I lured and lured for two weeks and I couldn't even get a sit from her. Every time I brought my hand up, Dots would jump up and try to grab the treat from my hand. Finally one day I decided to just stand there with a clicker and wait her out (more capturing than shaping). Caught her a couple of time doing sits and downs for no reason, click/reward. 10 minutes later she was offering sits and downs on her own for treats! So I am not against it. But if I had Dots as a puppy, I would definitely train her the same way I am doing with Ike: lure + marker.

Last edited by Jason L; 05-27-2010 at 09:57 PM.
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