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post #1 of 171 (permalink) Old 01-03-2009, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Sit Means Sit Training

I am considering using a trainer from Sit Means Sit for private lessons for my GSD. I have done a good amount of online research about them, met with the trainer, seen dogs face to face, etc. Just wondering if anybody here has used them.

Note: I know about the training collar used and am not opposed to this based on what saw in training - unless somebody knows something that I should. Thanks!

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post #2 of 171 (permalink) Old 01-03-2009, 05:18 PM
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Re: Sit Means Sit Training

what kind of collar are they usuing? i love the names of your pets.
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post #3 of 171 (permalink) Old 01-03-2009, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sit Means Sit Training

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Originally Posted By: doggiedadwhat kind of collar are they usuing
They are using a remote collar for focus - it uses a tiny jolt of electricity. Some think it's controversial, but after reading more about how it's used and talking to the trainer, I see the benefits. The E-collar (as they call it) has been around for nearly 50 years. However the original models were unsophisticated, single-level units. The collars have gone through transition much like that which has been seen in common products like the computer or microwave oven. Today's models are much more effective and are completely humane according to the trainer.

I got this off a website: "The staff at the KC Conservative allowed the unit to be tested directly on the skin and were able to hold the unit even at the highest level without significant discomfort. The Sit Means Sit method is so effective and gentle that it is fully endorsed by the Humane Society of the United States. Use of this method will reduce the number of dogs being put down or placed in shelters every year for behavior problems. Owner Tom Mancuso reminds clients that this method is much gentler than tugging on a leash. With the Sit Means Sit method, you can control your pet without yelling, raising your voice, fighting or yanking on the dog."

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post #4 of 171 (permalink) Old 01-03-2009, 05:51 PM
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Re: Sit Means Sit Training

There are much better e-collar methods than Sit Means Sit. Lou Castle http://www.loucastle.com/ is one I would recommend over Fred Hassen, hopefully Lou will see this and chime in. I'd recommend sitting in on a session with a dog that is just starting out; that is when you will see how much stress a method imparts on an animal. I've seen e-collar work done to teach agility to a beginner dog and it was not pretty. I felt awful for the dog. Please note that I am not at all against the e-collar; when used correctly, they're fantastic and I think I'll be owning one sometime for proofing as well as "off leash insurance."

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post #5 of 171 (permalink) Old 01-03-2009, 05:55 PM
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Re: Sit Means Sit Training

For a BABY dog I would not use an e-collar regardless of how good the trainer is at their job. I think E-collars have a place for proofing and off lead but there are better methods, especially positive ones for babies.


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post #6 of 171 (permalink) Old 01-03-2009, 07:16 PM
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Re: Sit Means Sit Training

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Originally Posted By: AmaruqFor a BABY dog I would not use an e-collar regardless of how good the trainer is at their job. I think E-collars have a place for proofing and off lead but there are better methods, especially positive ones for babies.
I agree,positive training for commands.
E-collar is more for correcting bad/wrong behavior.
I don't think it's really needed for a puppy.

Unless,you have a monster
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post #7 of 171 (permalink) Old 01-03-2009, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Sit Means Sit Training

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Originally Posted By: oliver annieUnless,you have a monster
No monster here - at all.

I sat in on a lesson this week and the 24 wk old pup *had been using for 2 weeks* didn't seem hurt by the collar. It seemed more humane than the jerk with the leash as I have seen.

For my pup, the e-collar wouldn't be used until 20 wks at the earliest. Plus the trainer made it known he would make me practice on him and visa versa, calibrating appropriately to avoid "shock" training her. He explained it as more of a tickl to get her focused as needed. I would never hurt my dog to train her. Ever.

Any specific examples/comments of anybody using Sit Means Sit appreciated. I will definitely be using their services, just looking for personal experiences. Thanks!

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post #8 of 171 (permalink) Old 01-03-2009, 08:29 PM
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Re: Sit Means Sit Training

Since you want specific information than I have nothing to offer. I never used them but it sounds like I never would either.

Glad to hear she wont be using the e-collar until she is a BIG girl at 20 weeks. But I guess that is your own choice and you are happy with it.


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post #9 of 171 (permalink) Old 01-03-2009, 08:29 PM
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Re: Sit Means Sit Training

Without elaborating I agree with you. I am not as opposed to the E Collar as I used to be, but in this situation if was the OP, I would find a new trainer.

Teaching a pup basic commands can be done easily without using and E Collar, or for that matter a pronged collar. In this case, the use of an E Collar sounds like an easily out for the trainer.

As you mentioned, the more positive training methods are much better with a pup.
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post #10 of 171 (permalink) Old 01-04-2009, 01:32 AM
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Re: Sit Means Sit Training

While I do feel there are times when a shock collar is helpful and even appropriate, using it for basic training on a young dog (and 20 weeks is VERY young yet) is not a "gentle" way to train.

E-collar training is based on punishment. Yes, good trainers use the minimal amount of shock, but the reality is that the dog has to learn to AVOID something it finds uncomfortable. Instead of creating an atmosphere where the dog wants to obey because it's really thrilled about the training and reward and bonding with the owner, the e-collar creates an atmosphere of avoidance. If you truly mean it when you said "I would never hurt my dog to train her. Ever." then I would strongly encourage you to look into other methods for your pup.

There are great positive training methods out there (and great positive training trainers) that can teach you and your pup most of the basics with little to no correction. You'll build a better relationship with your dog. I know that the e-collar trainers swear by their relationships, but pure logic dictates that a dog that is trained using aversives/punishment is going to be less trusting than a dog trained using properly timed positive reinforcements. And having come from a background where I initially did train using corrections, I can tell you that you DO get a better relationship when you concentrate on the positive instead of the negative (and back in the old days I would have sworn on a Bible that the relationship I had with my dogs couldn't be any stronger).

You can always add corrections later on, but you can never take them back once they're used.

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