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Training a pup to engage

3K views 26 replies 10 participants last post by  Jenny720 
#1 ·
Hi,

So my puppy Kaos is 5.5 months old now and for the most part, he's a growing bundle of joy. I've had German Shepherds in the past but Kaos is my first working line pup and I'm finding that getting him engaged is a tad difficult.

During training (indoors) he is fine with engagement .... as long as there's something in it for him. He's very food motivated. However, it just doesn't seem like this pup is that interested in me. Even when playing - I have him on a 6ft leash, I drop his tug or ball, he goes for it and then promptly lies down to chew on it; even if I reel him into me.

Outdoors, you can forget about any kind of engagement and even food or toys don't bring him around. He's more interested in the grass or flying bugs, or anything really that isn't me.

How do I build engagement? How do I go about making my pup want what I have and to be the most interesting thing in his sphere? Are there books or online courses that deal with this?

He's currently teething and losing his puppy teeth so playing tug isn't as fun for him any more.

(Wish images wouldn't flip on their sides like they do haha)
 

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#2 ·
What games do you play with food? do you teach him to push into your hand to get food? Do you throw food to let him chase? do you hold the food in your hand and let him chase your hand to get it? (Not bite, just chase). All of these things will help you when you are outside.

as far as the ball inside, sounds like he's just more independent and he doesn't know that he needs to come back to you. Really...he has the object, why come back? It's his. He owns it. :) Working line generally have a higher possession and aren't just going to come back to you.

Have you tried playing 2 balls? Tease him with one ball then throw it a short distance. when he has it, tell him to come and start reeling him in. He MUST come with a distance that you can touch the string of the ball in his mouth. when he does, pull out the second ball and wait for him to drop the first then throw the second. It won't be long before he's coming back to you.

Outdoors is sooooo much more interesting. You have to remember that whatever you teach him inside has be be started at step one when you take him somewhere else. Dogs don't generalize.

Look up Dave Kroyer. I haven't signed up for his site but it's only $10/mth to access all of his videos.

Denise Fenzi has courses online.

And where are you located at? You might be better finding a local trainer than looking online.
 
#5 ·
Hi Jax, I'm in Edinburgh, Scotland. We have a single IGP club that is about 45 minutes away. Unfortunately, I am unable to attend this club at the moment but will look into applying again next year. Currently I am working through an online course by Tobias Oleynik. I am also waiting for Denise's engagement through play class to start up at the beginning of August.

I do in fact teach him to push into my hand for the food and he does this brilliantly. I have also tried to make him chase my hand for food and when I do this, he constantly just takes my arm in his mouth. My arm, not my hand. And just to be clear, he isn't biting down on my arm, he's simply holding it in his mouth.

I have also tried the two balls game and when I'm reeling him in, he'll stash the ball he had where he was chewing it and come to me very reluctantly. He'll happily take the second ball though and then run back to where the first ball is stashed.

I desperately want to bond with my boy and get a more engagement and focus from him.

He's cute and handsome. Looks a lot like mine last year. He's my first working line too.

So if he's not interested in the toys, you have to make him interested. Don't just throw the ball or drop the tug on the ground and expect him to get excited about it. Tease him with it. Wriggle it in front of him. If you have another person, throw it to him/her and "throw a big party" after you catch it. Make excited sounds. Maybe if he shows interest then you give him treats. Do you have a flirt pole? Try that.
Hi tc68, it's not that he's not interested in the toys; it's more that he wants the toys all to himself. I do tease him with it, I do run about with it, I do act stupid with it. He will jump about for the toy and once he gets it, it's astalavista baby! Oh and his favourite thing to do is chase a flirt pole. He just absolutely love the flirt pole above any other of his toys.
 
#3 ·
He's cute and handsome. Looks a lot like mine last year. He's my first working line too.

So if he's not interested in the toys, you have to make him interested. Don't just throw the ball or drop the tug on the ground and expect him to get excited about it. Tease him with it. Wriggle it in front of him. If you have another person, throw it to him/her and "throw a big party" after you catch it. Make excited sounds. Maybe if he shows interest then you give him treats. Do you have a flirt pole? Try that.
 
#9 ·
Hi Steve, what I do to cue start is put his fur saver on. I don't attach a lead to it, the lead attaches to his flat collar. I simply use the fur saver to signal the beginning of work. After we're done, the fur saver comes off.

In the house, obviously where he is most comfortable, he literally jumps at me when he sees the fur saver. He wants to get it on and get fed. Outside however is a different kettle of fish. He ambles all over the place, sniffing, chasing bugs, etc.
 
#12 ·
I agree with Steve. I start obedience the same way every time. I do something different for tracking and for protection. But it all involves a toy of some kind.

These are all signals we give our dogs before we take the field to let them know what we want. And in hopes that when we are in obedience, they aren't looking for the helper ;)

Deb Zappia has a video out for the platform. I haven't watched it because I used to train with her and I already know how to do it. But that game is super fun for them, your puppy is at the right age to start it. It teaches them to go out and come back. Go out, get to the platform and stay there (self control). The platform can be used for anything once they know it. Long dogs, motions, control in protection. You might want to look that up. I think it's about $30 for a week?
 
#13 ·
I'm working with my first working line GSD as well (she's not yet two years old). I found Michael Ellis videos to be very helpful in explaining and giving examples of how to build engagement. We did a lot of tug work/playing to build drive for a tug. We used food but also did some trial and error on the most high value foods and toys. For mine, it's barely cooked pieces of beef and a fetch ball. The high distraction areas we tackle with the higher value treats.

So for example, inside she gets lower value treats. She only gets the really high value ones when the environment is more distracting. And we did a crap ton of training sessions where the only thing we do is take her out to a new place, sit her down, and start rewarding simple eye contact with high value treats.

She doesn't have perfect attention by any stretch, but she does check in with us when we're out and about much better than any other dog I've ever had.
 
#15 ·
I think working lines tend to be more possessive and more independent. Other lines may lack engagement for other reasons. But what I read in the OP's first post was the puppy takes his toy and goes away. Possession and independence. My boy has less pos. and ind. than my female. He learned quickly that coming back to me meant more play. He pushes into me constantly with toys to get me to interact. My girl is like....MINE...All MINE...Get. Your. Own. and that will be MINE too.
 
#19 ·
Resource guarding and possession are the same thing. It all depends on how you handle it :)
@RSharpe75 - look into this page. It was just posted on the IPO facebook page.

https://gettraining.canemodog.com/c...x81S6fnsamzB5rcLZNsZ86rJVMAMb1tPOjk3zOy6sWgNY

And join the facebook IPO pages. there are several. You can learn a lot and ask questions
https://www.facebook.com/groups/IPOTraining/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/175921333319435/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/748505005221955/
https://www.facebook.com/completecanine10/ (my trainers page - she has videos of pieces and you can look her up on vimeo and youtube)
There is another group something like IPO101. That's for new handler specifically.
 
#22 ·
Everything you just said was true about my pup too. No matter how fun i was with his toys. He rather chew on it himself. Also working lines.

What I did was to take the Online course with Michael Ellis "The Power of Playing Tug w/ Your Dog"

university.leerburg.com/Catalog/viewCourse/cid/88

Now he just wanna play tug WITH me. Its the best thing in his life.

Cannot recommend it enough. It avaiable in 3 formats. Take the Self study course. Think its the same price.

Good luck!
 
#23 ·
My dog, 9 months, has working line in him, and he's very independent, very "what's in it for me." Be careful about playing tug... we were using the Chuck-it with strap attached to play tug and get him excited, trying to increase engagement, and he got my hand. I ended up getting infected, having to go to the doctor, and he got reported. He's now on home quarantine for 10 days!
 
#24 ·
My two males working mine and asl very intense with the ball drive. I know ball two ball is often talked a lot here a lot- i did not know it when I trained retrieve. With max when he was a pup. He always chased after the ball at 8 weeks old though. He was a food, ball and tug hound early.. When I wanted for him to bring the ball back more. I gave him cheese then threw the ball rinsed and repeat. (On a lead) Many may say don’t do that but I have no issues with engagement with him he always wants to do something with me 24-7. He does not come out of the ocean till he finds what I throw - it is dangerous so I’m careful ocean can be real rough here with lot of rip tides that are hard to see. I can throw his ball in the middle of piping plovers and he will go right for the ball( he has a high prey drive ) so I am always impressed how he ignores these very clear fleeing birds. (I dont throw the ball into the birds on purpose if it skips or jumps in their direction or just a bad throw) He always has super focus -when we are engaged -not sure if it is a male thing. It does get stronger as they mature. I have wild cats across the street and it is easy to forget how It was a challenge to get him to focus on me with the ball as a pup. Now the cats are completely invisible when we are engaged. Luna would rather knosh on her toys them give them back. She enjoys playing tug that’s her thing she likes to do with her people.
 
#26 ·
I would also recommend doing your play (with the ball etc.) for a short structured time. Keeps his focus & energy on you high. Don't drag your sessions out into long ones, because that is when the dog loses focus & interest. You should end the session with your dog always wanting a little more. That will help build for future sessions.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Look at me exercises help they have a lot of videos on it helps with focus. I have did a lot of focus exercises with Max as a pup.
Max as a young pup and Topper.

Maturing Max with a family of wild turkeys passing behind us in our yard in the woods a few feet away. His ball as a reward.





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