Biting and Jumping - Page 4 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #31 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GSDchoice View Post
Yes, i don't really have any good advice on this because I tried the "knee up" method with our Great Dane puppy for months (I was a school student then) and it never worked. She thought it was great fun, a game! I probably was doing something wrong. My mom complained about my jackets which all had muddy pawprints on the front. Basically she grew big, got heavier, and as she calmed down, she stopped her crazy jumping.

Anyway I have a bit of skepticism about the "knee up" method as a result...and I would lean towards trying the "walking into their space" method...but I guess different things work for different dogs! Yes, it's hard to break a Habit which she thought was fun and was doing with previous owners, so good luck.
Yeah, I'm not sure the knee up method is going to work for her. I've now tried it multiple times with no success. She ends up just trying to bite and play with my leg and foot.
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post #32 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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The yielding exercise shouldn't be angry or confrontational -- it's calm. I think of it like a gentle dance. My calm energy is going absorb the pup's kookoo energy. I want to take the energy down a notch, not give them back more energy in the form of confrontation (which they may take as "let's rumble," or worse, let me challenge my person).



The advice to stand tall and square your shoulders isn't because you're going to "take on" the pup. It's centering yourself -- I think of it as a kind of mindfulness. It's kind of like yoga's center of gravity mind-set, creating mental clarity. You become the mountain the dog is jumping against: mountains don't get angry -- they're just mountains.



FWIW, I learned yielding from a the last apprentice of the guy who invented it, who died of cancer shortly after training this last apprentice (he was a legendary balanced trainer who created a number of techniques widely used in pet dog training -- he was incredibly patient and unflappable, but not all the people who've glommed onto his exercises understood that part of it).



Kneeing sometimes doesn't work well unless you hurt the dog, and that's not a good way to train. It's an old-school technique that's been around for decades (your parents or grandparents probably used it, along with rubbing the dog's muzzle in poop to potty-train it...same era and philosophy). It can be counter-productive: they may think you're playing with them and find your reaction delightful, which is all they want. It's also more likely to lead to confrontation, which I really don't want in my dog training: we're on the same team, not opponents!


Another thing I don't care for about kneeing and prong corrections for jumping is that I firmly believe you have no right to correct a dog that hasn't been taught the right thing to do first. I believe that's an unfair correction from the dog's point of view. We should teach the right thing, get the behavior locked in, and then we can fairly correct if they don't do it. So if you haven't taught her that running up and sitting is the right way to get attention, correcting when she jumps is doing it exactly backwards IMHO. Dogs are forgiving and may let you get away with it, but as training theory goes, I think you'll get more out of a dog by showing them what's right instead of making life all about doing the wrong thing with no replacement behavior taught.
Thanks for the explanation. I definitely agree with your style of teaching. I want our dogs to behave to please me, not because they're afraid of being punished.
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post #33 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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I didn't read all the responses so forgive me if this is redundant. When I got my current dog he was 5.5 months and a handler jumper. He was also like 72 lbs. Not cool. What wound up working was giving him a kong to parade with. When he is calm and showing off his prize by circling me with 4 feet on the ground, then he gets his greets and affection. He has kind of learned to self soothe. Now I let him out of his crate and he looks for something to parade with. Funny, these days (he is almost 2) he only needs to cap himself when coming out of his crate. When I leave him loose he is good in the house, and when I come home when he is loose he is like "oh hey you're home, coool" while like stretching off the couch lol Very appropriate and calm, no woobie needed. However I only just started leaving him loose..so not a great option for you yet Talking future here.

I also ..in his jumpy days...kept a prong on him with a leather pull tab (I never left it on when he was alone though). I have 3 little kids and I just don't tolerate dogs jumping on them and landsharking them. To heck with patiently learning management. If you are rude and making little kids scared you are getting a sharp correction. I don't care if it is a 5 month old pup. I suppose it is easier to start redirecting properly with a new small pup that doesn't mug you just because his paws are on you. But like you I was dealing with a young dog, not a small puppy. I grew up with GSDs. We had litters. And young dogs before they were sold. When there were puppies in that 5 to 11 month old range on the property ( I dont know why but I remember being particularly NOT fond of dogs in the 6 to 9 months old period) I use to peer out the door to see who was out and make dashes to the gate. I dealt with it and I loved the dogs well enough to see past it...but as a result I have a "thing" about seeing kids rolled and nipped by dogs.

If you make the effort, and find what works for you and your dog as well, you can eventually make it stop
Thanks so much for your input! Definitely a good idea to give her something to divert her attention to when she's in one of her crazy moods. LOL!
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post #34 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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As long as you're not planning on doing any sort of bitework or very advanced training, I definitely agree with using a prong/kneeing the dog to correct jumping.

I wont be doing this with my new pup that will be coming home in a couple weeks because I plan on doing bitework and advanced training with her, but I work as a dog trainer at a facility where we just do basic pet obedience, and this is how we correct jumping (except we use martingales and occasionally choke chains on really bad pullers; however I personally prefer prongs, which is what I used with my last dog). Usually the dogs stop jumping on us within a day or two into their 2 week board and train program. The hard part is getting the owners to do this correctly lol

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Well, honestly, we really aren't sure if we're going to do any type of advanced training with her or not. At this point, I really feel like she needs to be trained for something whether it be a sport or service. We've had a lot of dogs, but she's very different. She's much more energetic, and I'm not sure she'll ever be the type of dog that just enjoys "hanging out" most of the day.
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post #35 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tulip View Post
As long as you're not planning on doing any sort of bitework or very advanced training, I definitely agree with using a prong/kneeing the dog to correct jumping.

I wont be doing this with my new pup that will be coming home in a couple weeks because I plan on doing bitework and advanced training with her, but I work as a dog trainer at a facility where we just do basic pet obedience, and this is how we correct jumping (except we use martingales and occasionally choke chains on really bad pullers; however I personally prefer prongs, which is what I used with my last dog). Usually the dogs stop jumping on us within a day or two into their 2 week board and train program. The hard part is getting the owners to do this correctly lol

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We do bitework. His protection portion is ready for IPO (IGP) 2, never mind 1. We do IGP 1 end of summer as long as I can get the tracking and dumbells down. Not talking about squashing drive in a new/young puppy. A 6 month or in OPs case slightly older dog that is jumping and biting is just plain bad manners.
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post #36 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 10:00 PM
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We do bitework. His protection portion is ready for IPO (IGP) 2, never mind 1. We do IGP 1 end of summer as long as I can get the tracking and dumbells down. Not talking about squashing drive in a new/young puppy. A 6 month or in OPs case slightly older dog that is jumping and biting is just plain bad manners.
Oh okay, thanks for teaching me! I'm just now learning about the whole squashing drive in a new pup thing, so I didnt know this. Thanks!

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post #37 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 08:17 AM
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Oh okay, thanks for teaching me! I'm just now learning about the whole squashing drive in a new pup thing, so I didnt know this. Thanks!

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I'm only in it a year I have a new puppy coming and am definitely reading up on how to channel rather than squash. Got a few good reads on bringing up a brand new working/sports puppy.
Once they are 6 months or so and jumping and nipping company, family members though..it's manners time lol
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post #38 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 11:56 AM
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I'm only in it a year I have a new puppy coming and am definitely reading up on how to channel rather than squash. Got a few good reads on bringing up a brand new working/sports puppy.
Once they are 6 months or so and jumping and nipping company, family members though..it's manners time lol
I'm in the same boat as you! Bringing home my pup on the 20th . Maybe we could exchange resources and info/advice? I've been constantly looking for more resources and info on how to channel rather than squash before my pup gets here

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post #39 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 01:09 PM
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I'm in the same boat as you! Bringing home my pup on the 20th . Maybe we could exchange resources and info/advice? I've been constantly looking for more resources and info on how to channel rather than squash before my pup gets here

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post #40 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 02:55 PM
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Each pup is different and finding what works can very. Max is a jumper not so much in me but to family friends. He was also a very mouth pup so a lot of distracting and re focusing on a toy to bite. I used with leash pop correction in the older months. Luna is not so much a jumper even though she may follow his lead. Luna is not much of a space invader. Max also will feel the need / habit to lick the face to get more scent information. As a pup leashes greetings - going to the spot or place was done for awhile. When he was a few months old corrections were used via Leash pops- using the word no jumping. Anything contact knee whatever would amp him up. He also did not like the smell of Vick’s he hated the smell. I found that out when kids were sick and slathered in Vick’s. So I used that to by just saying I’m going to get the Vick’s and just flash the Vick’s jar with cap on and he would not jump. When my dad watched I’m I would leave the Vick’s jar outside so my dad can bring in it in case he jumped on him. Max has improved but the desire to jump on guests is still there and that is with people ignoring him. It was never condoned or really instigated with guest’s showing excitement- ever. What works best I found is giving him the ball prior to guest entering the house and the word no jumping. The ball helps greatly and he uses that to transfer any excitement. It also keeps his mouth full from licking guests. He will get that lick in though if there is an opportunity even if hours later.
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