potty training. feeling frustrated and not understanding... - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2017, 01:04 AM Thread Starter
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potty training. feeling frustrated and not understanding...

My three month gsd has been pooping in different areas in the house. I was gone for three days and my husband stayed with him here....not a problem! He pooped outside every single time and didn't even have an accident inside. I have been home a week now and I have cleaned up poop at least four times a day. Inside. I feel like he really wants to please my husband more than me, because when my husband gets onto him you can see the difference in body language. I am not as authoritative as Aaron and I do try. Aaron says I'm not keeping him out long enough maybe... I notice a big change when he goes out now, at first he would poop and pee within five minutes. Not now...he explores and I do stay put with him! Not for real long periods..he pees instantly but after about fifteen minutes of no pooping we go inside. Then..I find a pile of poop shortly after. Am I doing something wrong here. I know I must be. Help! Also..I put his nose in it ( well not so literally but basically) scold And pop his nose but that hasn't phased him. It seems.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2017, 01:20 AM
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potty training. feeling frustrated and not understanding...

Rubbing his nose in it won't help. The dog doesn't understand why going to the bathroom is bad, and quite frankly punishing a dog for a necessary bodily function does neither of you any good. It doesn't communicate anything because he won't make the connection that you're looking to make. In his mind, you've either

a.) randomly punished him for no reason if it wasn't immediately after

or

b.) you've punished him for going to the bathroom.

It could be why he withholds it outside with you and only goes when you're not around. If you bring him out and he goes pee, lots of praise and reward. If he doesn't go poo within 5-10 minutes, bring him back in for a few minutes and then go back out to see if he'll go. If he does, once again lots of praise. And just to add - he should be near you and you should be able to keep an eye on him. It's honestly the best way to potty train because you learn their schedule/signals and can reinforce the behaviour you want.

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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2017, 01:46 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you! I mentioned that to my husband ...about the nose and popping him...I didn't think it was necessary?? He told me he has done it with all of is dogs and it's t he only way they will learn. We reply love our dog, he's so smart and if I need to try different techniques. So if he is out there for as long as mentioned..
No pooping...how soon after would you re try??
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2017, 02:01 AM
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I agree with not rubbing his nose in it or bopping him. I don't think they learn anything from that! I guess I disagree with your husband.

Does your puppy have too much freedom? It sounds like he isn't being monitored as much as he should be. Does he have free range of the entire house? If he isn't in your direct line of sight, he should be confined in some way. An x-pen would be good for that. While in an x-pen or other type of confinement, you can be sure where he is at all times, and if he does start to go to the bathroom, he isn't hidden away behind something for you to find in a few minutes. He's just right there, so you can see him and say, "Oops! Outside," then rush him out.

Is he kennel trained? Dogs usually will not soil their sleeping quarters, so he won't want to poop in his kennel. You can put him in a kennel when you can't watch him really closely, and he should hold it. Of course, you can't just put him in there and expect him to like it. You have to introduce it properly.

Also, if you come back inside with him and he hasn't pooped, pop him in his kennel (where we know he isn't likely to want to soil) and come back in 10 minutes to try again. You say that he poops a few minutes after coming in, so instead of letting him wonder around the house to find the ideal potty spot, put him in his kennel and don't allow wandering until after he's gone to the bathroom outside.

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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2017, 02:09 AM
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It is an issue of too much freedom.

The way dogs learn to potty train by crate is basically this.

Dog sees 4 walls a roof over his head in the crate and if he poops or pees there he is stuck in it or near it. That sucks. Dog goes outside goes to the bathroom and he gets to walk away from it and stays clean. That's awesome. You then create a structured routine to make the puppy successful. He gets ample and predictable scheduled opportunities to go outside. If he unloads totally he can have however much observed freedom in the house that he can handle without having a potential accident, and when he starts to hit that point he might go to the bathroom in the house you either stick him in the crate or you let him go outside again. If he doesn't go then you put him in the crate wait about 10-15 minutes and try letting him out again...repeat until he goes outside.

The dog will be in the house see four walls a roof and think if I go to the bathroom in here I'm stuck in it because dogs do not conceptualize area well. What you don't want is a dog learning hey four walls a roof and oh look I can poop over here in this corner and walk away...awesome! Mistakes are a step in the wrong direction. You want to build conditioning and habit for going to the bathroom outside and minimize all mistakes through your structure and plan.

Potty training can be done correction free and should be done this way.

What you don't want to do is let the puppy have run of the house without watching him like a hawk. It is like letting a two year old kid run around the house completely unsupervised. It is a bad idea.

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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2017, 04:38 AM
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Like everyone else said, I wouldn't rub the dog's nose in his poop.

Apart from the advice the others have given, I would try to do the following:

- Keep an eye on the dog's bathroom schedule. It's likely that he'll relieve himself at similar times. Then, around the time that you know he'll go, take him out.
- Take him out for walks after meals, it's more likely that he'll poo then.
- Try to keep an eye on the dog as much as possible. There's the possibility that he'll act in a particular way before relieving himself, so if you're able to spot that, you'll be able to take him out.
- If you take him out for a walk, and he hasn't relived himself, do the whole routine like you were going back inside the house but at the last minute stay outside. I think this would work in the case where your dog would relieve himself immediately after coming back from a walk.

Of course, give lots of praise and treats when the dog does his business outside.

I know the points above may seem like a lot of work (or at least, a lot of dog-watching), but I believe that all the time and effort you invest early on is time and effort that you'll save later on.

I wouldn't really scold or punish him for relieving himself inside; I honestly believe that dogs have no special interest in doing so, and as the others have said, they like to keep their living/sleeping area clean. If the dog has an accident inside the house, I'd recommend cleaning it with water mixed with bleach to kill germs and get rid of the smells. I don't like the smell of bleach at all, but it worked much better than cleaning it with nice-smelling cleaning products.

We more or less followed the points above (except for the last one, it didn't occur to me at the time) and in just three days our dog was housebroken, excepting the odd accident. She was a bit older than yours, though, she was four months and a half.

Finally, do not focus on the apparent distinction the dog makes between you and your husband. Dogs are very sensitive and intuitive about a person's feelings, and if you feel weird/worried/resentful the dog may pick up on it and act differently. I'll give you a very silly example that has really happened to me: our dog Nix would keep quiet most of the time but bark when I was on the phone. I didn't really get it until I realised she usually did it with phone calls which had to do with work or with people I didn't know. Conclusion: I was a bit nervous on these phone calls and she picked up on it.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2017, 11:53 AM
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There's kind of an overall theme to most of the threads you've posted with your pup. I think what all these problems come down to is you have a different dog now thats got a little more drive and desire then the past ones. Maybe a little smarter if you want to use that term. He figures out real quick how to get what he wants and then throws a fit like in the crate when he doesn't. He picks up on things faster then what you realize. and that can be good and bad.

The smart in him can leave you thinking he knows something, when thats not really the case. The pottying in the house, he's just not potty trained. You think he is because at one point it was so easy so you don't stay consistent for long enough and he figures out another way to do what he wants or needs to do. Going ape in the crate got him something, a reaction or let out, something that leaves a determined puppy thinking he's going to get what he wants sooner or later. Be consistent over time, create a decent routine, and structure and stick with it. Take all that determination and smart, and shape it into what you want. Show him the right behavior will get him what he wants.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2017, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferAaron;8595794..he pees instantly but after about fifteen minutes of no pooping we go inside. [B
Then..I find a pile of poop shortly after.[/B] Am I doing something wrong here. I know I must be.
Yep - as others have pointed out, he should never be loose in the house unsupervised at this age. If you're finding poop after the fact rather than catching him in the act of squatting to poop then he has too much unsupervised freedom. Someone should be watching him at all times when he's not in his crate, and by watching I mean eyes on. If you can't actually SEE the puppy, you're not really watching the puppy! If you need to, have him drag a lightweight leash around the house, or even tether him to you so he can't just wander off and poop in a corner somewhere. The more you can prevent accidents in the house and reinforce pottying outside with praise and a treat, the faster he'll get it, and the more freedom he'll earn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferAaron View Post
Thank you! I mentioned that to my husband ...about the nose and popping him...I didn't think it was necessary?? He told me he has done it with all of is dogs and it's t he only way they will learn.
Ugh. No. No, that is not the only way he'll learn. Just because your husband has always done it that way doesn't mean it's a good idea it just means he's been doing it wrong all this time. Ask your husband this - how will the puppy know that he's being punished for WHERE he's pooping vs the fact that he's just pooping at all? When we smack a puppy for performing necessary bodily functions, WE know it's because it's being done in an inappropriate place, but the puppy does not. Until he learns that the only place to do it is outside, to him what he's doing isn't "wrong".

So, in addition to not being the only way the puppy will learn not to poop in the house, it can actually backfire on you, where the puppy is afraid to be seen pooping because he may be punished for it. That means he's more likely to attempt to sneak off and do it privately, and hence, more accidents in the house and also fewer opportunities to catch him in the act of pooping outdoors so you can tell him how wonderful he is.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2017, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Steve... excellent observation. I think you nailed the whole situation. Seriously. My other dog was smart...I think this dog is definitely more determined to get his way. For instance....my other dog eventually quit crying in the crate and would just watch me move about the house or even if crate was in a closed room...he was quiet within the first couple of weeks home. Our dog NOW...he will cry and cry and cry...and bark..this morning I let him play out for a good twenty minutes, gave water then I put that stubborn boy in his crate w a milk bone and his fav chew toy. He cried entire time. I let him out..

He follows me everywhere whining and crying after he's out. He eve n tries to..
I believe.take me BACK to his crate...put paws into it..and cry, looking at me!! He is very sharp and he will take a lot of patience and work. I know I ask many questions...I just want to do everything as close to right as I can. We are starting puppy training at petco in two weeks...then I plan to put him in a better training course when he's a little older. He's really a great boy.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-14-2017, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Cassidy'sMom..
Yes! Right on . Absolutely.
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